<< State Of The 360 Section >>

[JordanL]

This thread has much less to do with the 360 than with the 360 section, however I am putting it here so that it will reach the relevent people.

The 360 section is a mess. It's been a mess for a while, and all signs point to it getting worse. This is completely unacceptable. So, I would like to address several key points as to the state of the 360 section.

The Contraversy of Aquanox And Moderation

Let me be perfectly clear so that you have no doubt about this: I don't know of a single staff member who does not support Aquanox in general and the vast majority of his moderation decisions.

This section is primarily cleaned up by Aquanox, because he both spends the time here and has the motivation to clean it up properly. Aquanox however is not the only person moderating this section. As many of you may have noticed, I have been pretty active in this section as a moderator, assissting the clean up effort. I will continue to do so in the future, as will other members of the SMC and moderating staff.

Contrary to public perception however, this section is not treated with less concern than others, and this section is not here so that you can make life difficult for people who simply want to discuss their 360.

Similarly, this section is not here so that nothing but positive news or opinion can be posted. This section is here to foster honest discussion.

The Naysayer Pandemic

There is nothing wrong with having a negative opinion, or an opinion which runs contrary to the norm. There is a problem with confronting others about your opinion if you do not have a sound, rational, logical argument to support you.

There is a problem with telling someone else that there opinion matters less because this is a PS3 forum. There is a problem with telling someone else that they just need to suck it up, or that they are a moron for liking the games you despise.

I am not going to "crack down" on people who come here simply to disagree. I will however be forced to "crack down" on people who come here just to provoke reaction and provide nothing to the thread(s). A negative opinion, even a consistently negative opinion, can still add something to a thread or a subject. But a negative opinion which takes away from a thread or subject does not belong, and neither does a user who consistently perpetuates them.

The Anti-Naysayers

Bad news happens. That's the way it works: things aren't always rosy. You have to be able to accept that, in life as well as on these forums.

For months after the PS3 launched the PS3 section was inundated with negative news and negative threads, just as the 360 section is to some extent now. The PS3 section, I'm sorry to say, dealt with it however.

I think this incredibly sad because the majority of posters in the PS3 section are 12-16 year old kids who could care less about anything except for looking cool and voicing an opinion.

The posters in this section, the people who love their 360 and want to discuss it with others, need to be able to deal with bad news and the fact that other people will post them.

Jumping all over someone for posting up bad news, as in actual news, is unacceptable. I don't care if it's Ken Kutaragi himself posting the negative news, if it's actual news it is perfectly acceptable, and the users in this section should not completely flip out because of it.

The Future Of The Section

The 360 is going nowhere... it'll be around for a long time. If the Warantee Extension taught us anything it was that the 360 was going to be here for a while.

This section will remain as a place for people to discuss the 360 and the games for it. That does not mean, however, that the posting should continue as before. The section is swamped with hyperbole, both by those seeking to trash on the 360, and those seeking to defend it.

When something goes down in the PS3 section I get two or three reports before I'm even able to do anything about it.

When something happens in this section, people report it as often as they do not, and instead take it upon themselves to be the moderator and put someone in their place.

Consider this as me putting you in your place. You are not a mod, you are not an SMC. We don't want you trying to vanquish the sections trolls. We want you to tell us about it so that we can decide what to do.

Even when negative things were being posted, the PS3 section remained a positive force in this forum. The 360 section needs to remain a positive force in this forum as well.

If you have any discussion on the state of the section, please feel free to respond with it below, though I ask that you limit the amount you argue in this thread. Some people are going to hyperbole, as I said before. Trust me, I can spot it on my own without the help of anyone's reply.

[dog77_1999]

Good points. I believe that the ban hammer needs to be used more loosely in all sections. Not a full ban but a good week ban would go a long way with the "PS3 wins XBoX suks!!" and the "Bill Gates is god!" posts. Now, I think everyone would agree that some bias should be expected to the PS3 given that this is the ps3forums. But there needs to be a clear line where everyone can see.

[JordanL]

Good points. I believe that the ban hammer needs to be used more loosely in all sections. Not a full ban but a good week ban would go a long way with the "PS3 wins XBoX suks!!" and the "Bill Gates is god!" posts. Now, I think everyone would agree that some bias should be expected to the PS3 given that this is the ps3forums. But there needs to be a clear line where everyone can see.

Part of it is using short term bans to get through to people who do not respond to words.

[kingsam]

Personally I find the PS3 section much much much more of a mess, at times it's **** near unreadable, and ridiculous.

But the points you make about the issues with the 360 section I agree with wholesale.

[Stewie Skywalker]

I think people have an issue with Aquanox for other reasons I think people respect the fact that he brings the news and such its just those other things...same goes with Lefien or however the **** you spell his name. These boards have gone a little haywire though the glory days are certainly past us.

[JordanL]

Personally I find the PS3 section much much much more of a mess, at times it's **** near unreadable, and ridiculous.

But the points you make about the issues with the 360 section I agree with wholesale.

Yes, but its near unreadable because there is no intelligent discussion, not because people are reducing everything to a bitching match.

Unfortunately I can't make everyone be more intelligent.

[kingsam]

Yes, but its near unreadable because there is no intelligent discussion, not because people are reducing everything to a bitching match.

Unfortunately I can't make everyone be more intelligent.

I don't know there's some pretty 'bad' stuff said there, there's just nobody to bitch with as no 360 fans go there, so there's no arguments. And it ain't just aimed at the 360 and Wii but random devs, Capcom, and a tonne of other random crap.

Everytime I read the PS3 section it's rampant with, not only idiocy which is the majority, but troll-like comments too. Unfortunatly, so much so that I barely read it anymore, or engage in any discussion.
The PSU front page and GAF are much better sources for Sony news now, than the PS3 section, which used to be right on the ball and intelligent (back before I even joined). GAF seems to offer much better discussion with humour interspersed, but I'm still waiting on getting fully registered there.

Whatever tho, I don't wanna derail this topic anymore coz the points made in the OP are important I believe.

[Lefein]

Personally I find the PS3 section much much much more of a mess, at times it's **** near unreadable, and ridiculous.

But the points you make about the issues with the 360 section I agree with wholesale.

I can think of a few instances in the past where a massive forum cleanup would start from the PS3 section and pretty much end in the PS3 section. The unfortunate side effect of that was some pretty deep division and a lot of the 2005 crowd left because it kinda looked like the 360 section had diplomatic immunity.

It honestly is about time the 360 section became a part of Rome rather than a festering wound and it will make it a LOT easier to crack down on poor behavior in the PS3 section eventually. I think the moderation and administration team didn't want to bring the fist down on the 360 section because it would be looked on as being unfair and might scare off some of the good with the bad. Unfortunately, that policy had the ultimate effect of making all sections worse.

Let me go on record as having said, myself, that I welcome the pro 360 community here and that some of the most intelligent debate DOES happen here. We should welcome a healthy and varied community without having to lose the PS3Forums identity. Now is a great time to embrace the community aspect of this site and move forward.

[poematik14]

Can I say something?
Ill probably get killed for this.

But Ive noticed that any thread that isint pro-360, gets locked by Aquanox. And Ive also noticed that X2 goes into every thread and flames anyone who has opinions that arent pro-360.

Okay, I said it, go ahead and shoot me.

[SnakeDevil]

Can I say something?
Ill probably get killed for this.

But Ive noticed that any thread that isint pro-360, gets locked by Aquanox. And Ive also noticed that X2 goes into every thread and flames anyone who has opinions that arent pro-360.

Okay, I said it, go ahead and shoot me.

QFT

I'm saving this X2 quote for when MGS4, GT5 and Killzone 2 come out

If you allow fanyboyism to prevent you from playing great games like this, this year and the next, then I truly feel sorry for you.

I think its safe to say that he won't be running out to get a PS3 when those 3 games come out

[Slashlen]

Can I say something?
Ill probably get killed for this.

But Ive noticed that any thread that isint pro-360, gets locked by Aquanox. And Ive also noticed that X2 goes into every thread and flames anyone who has opinions that arent pro-360.

Okay, I said it, go ahead and shoot me.

Bullets are too good for you.

*grabs flamethrower*

But he does have a tendency to do that. Didn't he lock all of the RRoD threads after MS came out with the warranty and basically told people, "Shut up. It's fixed." He always seems to give the pro360 threads a lot more leeway, even if they turn into flamefests too.

Oh, I almost forgot.

*Burns poematik14 with flamethrower*

[MarKoNiO]

But Ive noticed that any thread that isint pro-360, gets locked by Aquanox.

The Contraversy of Aquanox And Moderation
Let me be perfectly clear so that you have no doubt about this: I don't know of a single staff member who does not support Aquanox in general and the vast majority of his moderation decisions.

If it was true that Aquanox locked every anti 360 thread, he would´t have the staff aproval would he ?

Plus every time I have seen him lock a thread, he gives an explanation at the end, and it usually makes sense.

He does a good job imo and you guys should cut him some slack.

[T2OY]

Similarly, this section is not here so that nothing but positive news or opinion can be posted. This section is here to foster honest discussion.

Unfortunately I can't make everyone be more intelligent.

In my personal opinion this and a lot of what you said sounds like it should have been handled by sending a personal PM to Aquanox. As most if not all of what you said will be followed by the posters here I don't think the same can be said about the biggest culprit of the problems themselves.

[Aleman]

I think we need a change: get rid of the 360 section. Actually, get rid of almost all the sections. I propose condensing the forum into just a few sections:

• PS3
• Other gaming
• General Chit-Chat

That way it's easier on the moderators to keep an eye on things. Also, now that this forum has grown so much, having a section labeled "360" on a website with a PS3 URL is pretty much an invitation for trolling/flaming. The new "Other gaming" section would hopefully attract a more diverse group of people where better discussion can be had.

Also, let's get rid of infractions, which essentially mean nothing. Go to straight to temporary bans with a "3 strikes you're out" policy before you get a perma ban. There will hopefully be less trolling if people fear real consequences.

These things work for NeoGAF where a lot of our longer term members have left for... myself included. I used to really enjoy the community here but lately there's been way too much drivel.

[G_H_G]

I think we need a change: get rid of the 360 section. Actually, get rid of almost all the sections. I propose condensing the forum into just a few sections:

• PS3
• Other gaming
• General Chit-Chat

That way it's easier on the moderators to keep an eye on things. Also, now that this forum has grown so much, having a section labeled "360" on a website with a PS3 URL is pretty much an invitation for trolling/flaming. The new "Other gaming" section would hopefully attract a more diverse group of people where better discussion can be had.

Also, let's get rid of infractions, which essentially mean nothing. Go to straight to temporary bans with a "3 strikes you're out" policy before you get a perma ban. There will hopefully be less trolling if people fear real consequences.

These things work for NeoGAF where a lot of our longer term members have left for... myself included. I used to really enjoy the community here but lately there's been way too much drivel.

Totally agree. The new forum setup sounds good to me. I don't see the point in having lots of smaller sections like 'PC gaming, old school gaming, etc, etc'. Just lump it all together and that way things of interest would actually get noticed a bit more.

Also agree with the banning thing as well.

[Supaman²²³]

I think we need a change: get rid of the 360 section. Actually, get rid of almost all the sections. I propose condensing the forum into just a few sections:

• PS3
• Other gaming
• General Chit-Chat

That way it's easier on the moderators to keep an eye on things. Also, now that this forum has grown so much, having a section labeled "360" on a website with a PS3 URL is pretty much an invitation for trolling/flaming. The new "Other gaming" section would hopefully attract a more diverse group of people where better discussion can be had.

Also, let's get rid of infractions, which essentially mean nothing. Go to straight to temporary bans with a "3 strikes you're out" policy before you get a perma ban. There will hopefully be less trolling if people fear real consequences.

These things work for NeoGAF where a lot of our longer term members have left for... myself included. I used to really enjoy the community here but lately there's been way too much drivel.

Totally Agree!

BTW Neogaf provides me with epic lolz!!

[MrFenwick]

Yes, it would be wise to get rid of the 360 section and the other lesser ones.

Merging them would be a good idea.

[SnakeDevil]

Totally agree with Aleman's plans, also I'd like to see the people who post those "Link Vs Sora" and "Who is the hottest: Nariko or Rachel" get Banned or infractions at the very least because honestly those threads are incomprehensibly stupid.

[JordanL]

I think we need a change: get rid of the 360 section. Actually, get rid of almost all the sections. I propose condensing the forum into just a few sections:

• PS3
• Other gaming
• General Chit-Chat

That way it's easier on the moderators to keep an eye on things. Also, now that this forum has grown so much, having a section labeled "360" on a website with a PS3 URL is pretty much an invitation for trolling/flaming. The new "Other gaming" section would hopefully attract a more diverse group of people where better discussion can be had.

Also, let's get rid of infractions, which essentially mean nothing. Go to straight to temporary bans with a "3 strikes you're out" policy before you get a perma ban. There will hopefully be less trolling if people fear real consequences.

These things work for NeoGAF where a lot of our longer term members have left for... myself included. I used to really enjoy the community here but lately there's been way too much drivel.

So basically turn PS3forums into GAF Jr.? Sorry, I don't see the wisdom in that.

EDIT: And just so anyone who is dealing with me knows, I do go by a three strikes your out rule. Keep that in mind.

I don't think I have the support from Morpheus to infraction for "stupidity", no matter how much I would like to.

[Lefein]

The 360 section will be fine as long as the same rules apply here that do on the other channels.

[Aleman]

So basically turn PS3forums into GAF Jr.? Sorry, I don't see the wisdom in that.

Why not model this place after a successful forum? The difference here would be that the main section would be PS3-only.

[Lefein]

Why not model this place after a successful forum? The difference here would be that the main section would be PS3-only.

This forum should have its own identity, though. It's better to simply bring the 360 section under the wing rather than try to let it be autonomous like it has been. Why throw the baby out with the bath water? As much as the crap has flown here, a lot of good has come from having a 360 section as well.

If the same rules will apply here as do for the rest of the forums, for once, then things should be great!

[Aleman]

This forum should have its own identity, though. It's better to simply bring the 360 section under the wing rather than try to let it be autonomous like it has been. Why throw the baby out with the bath water?

I would argue that a forum's identity is not defined by its structure but by its community. A more condensed forum would be easier to moderate, hopefully leading to better discussion all around. Each section would then have a more balanced group of moderators as well.

[JordanL]

Why not model this place after a successful forum? The difference here would be that the main section would be PS3-only.

I am in favor of merging ALL of the console forums, but not just deleted the 360 forum.

[Lefein]

If ONE thing differenciated this place from others, was the fact that its structure had a place for every fan and the spirit was always to welcome them. This spirit is what has been praised over many others.

If the x360 and Wii section are gone, that original spirit will the gone with it.

To some degree, I agree with you. Although, there was a time before the different sections. I think some of the oldschool crowd wants to see the 360 section go to re attain the old glory, but these are different times. Like you, I think a lot of good has come from having a diverse and welcoming community.

But it should behave as one community, nevertheless. Which has been an ongoing issue.

I would argue that a forum's identity is not defined by its structure but by its community. A more condensed forum would be easier to moderate, hopefully leading to better discussion all around. Each section would then have a more balanced group of moderators as well.

True. Like I just said, there was a time here before any of the other sections were made, and things were good. Either way, I won't disagree with what Morph does. Ultimately, it is about bringing us all together.