Sony Puts Money Back Into Next Generation

[DezNutz]

One thing I really like about Sony, is that they seem to re-invest in us the gamers. More so, then any other company (sega, nintendo or microsoft), they have not only made a ton of money off of us gamers, but they put more money into delivering us the best. Take this latest next generation for example, they partnered with 2 other companies for over 3 years developoing new cpu technology (the cell) spending over 300 million dollars in development just for us gamers. add-in the devlpment of the blue-ray disk/ readers/ getting compies signed to support the technology, and developing the technology further again for movies, but also for us gamers. Sony has made ther own plants to make chips to keep cost lower again making easier cost for top of line products for us gamers. They have done this for all three systems so far, and I am sure are already working on some ideas for the fourth. I never see this kind of money/time/ or development taken by any other console game company, most do some minor adaptaions of exisitng technology and rely on other manufactures to produce their products. Sony seems to realize the market in video games, and they also seem to realize it takes alot to remain at the top, and more so then any other company they put the money and time where their mouth is devloping state of the art hardware for each next generation system. Seems nice to know that not all my money used purchasing games is being thrown away by a game company that will slop together another system (thanks saturn), put are re-investing gamers money making our dreams of better systems and hardware a reality. Nice to see some companies making leaps for gamers instead of just adpating exisitng technology or keeping gamers money and not making an effor to create some new technology.

[The_One]

spending over 300 million dollars in development just for us gamers.

Sony is not stupid, if it was only for gaming, Sony would not have invested a few billion dollars in the CELL, they have their own agendas for the CELL also. The 300 mill figure you said was for the research alone, don't forget the cost to build fab plants, those are the big money drainers.

[siren]

The Cell Chip and Blu-Ray are nothing more than Trojan Horses in the PS3.

These were put into the PS3 by Sony Management long before SCE had even started designing the system. Why you ask?

Sony's other divisions are so far in the Red that it is sick. They needed some way to help these other divisions out. They just could no longer compete in the Consumer Electronics space when you have chinese and korean companies with significantly lower cost labor making devices.

So what is their answer? Design and produce an all purpose chip that they can utilize in all their devices. Then utilize their highest volume device to get it into mass market production quickly so that they can cheaply integrate it into their other Console Electronics systems.

As for Blu-Ray. Sony has been trying for over 30 years now to create a format that owns the market. They know that if they succeed then they have a ton of free money for upwards of 20 years flowing in.

They failed with BetaMax, MiniDisc, and will most likely fail with UMD. The closest they have gotten was the original DVD standard. The problem is that they have a very small stake in the standard.

In comes Blu-Ray. We do not know yet how this will end up, but they still have some issues to overcome. Not the least of which is cost.

Now they are doing some things better than before. But main reason the PS3 is using it is to help reduce the cost of Blu-Ray drive and disc production faster than normal market conditions would allow. Thus it is a torjan horse in a sense.

The other issue is whether it will reduce the costs just for Sony or for Everyone. Sony doesn't really care about anyone else who will be making the drives. As far as they are concerned, if putting their drive into the PS3 allows them to reduce the cost of making the drive by 50%, they can now make standalone Blu-Ray players and sell them at retail outlets for 25 - 50% cheaper than their competition. Combine that with their name and they can own that market for a couple of years until their competition can catch up.

Do not think for a moment that they are doing this for gamers. Contrary to that belief, they are doing it to save their company by utilizing their only truly profitable device for the last decade. If they fail or the PS3 were to fail, they so much in debt they could actually go bankrupt.

[X2]

And you wrong about MS not investing. They invest 5 billion into the xbox and the invest into there gamers and custumers. They do that valuing are opinion. They only gives us what we want and most of the time it's us asking and MS giving. Than MS forcing without us asking. You can't say that for companies like sony or nintendo. If they feel as though its not right to them then they won't institute it. Only when it takes off they want to get a piece of the pie. For example online gaming. It crazy how sony talk about MS like a dog when MS first introduce xbox live. They said that it would go nowhere, but at the same time they rush out they broadband adapter for a just in case. Now look at sony cell chip which is based around what broadband apps. Now look at xbox live 1.4 mil and growing. As far as I concern sony suck more out of there gamers than they put in. For example, sony wanted to slow up the market and gradually get to the graphics that the cell might produce. Sony knew way before ps2 was put out that it was going to be hard to develop for, but yet you call that the best.

Let see how sony invest into there gamers

They make you pay to play with four players -*$30.00

Network Adapter $40.00(When it could have just came with the system)

Ps2 Stand $25.00 Slim ps2 $14.99(When it should have came with the system)

Hard Drive 40gb $100.00(When it could have came with the system and they force you to pay for a game you probably don't won't. The avg 40gb HD cost about $70, but after rebate its even cheaper than that.)

PS2 system $150.00(179.00 bundled Edition) Slim ps2( which is the same as the original) $150.00(You're just paying for a new design and oh I forgot that hard drive you just spent $100 on it doesn't supported.)

Games, Games! PS2 has a 6000 game library how many out of that number is triple A titles. We know the usual MGS,GTA,GT4,JAK,FF,Sly&Cooper,Tekken,Devil May Cry. Those are the most obvious ones that everyone look for and bring up. Majority of the lib is crap that sony let slide through based on quantity instead of qualtiy. Now take the avg consumer that goes in a store if you the xbox aisle and the ps2 aisle by each other and have that person choose. They most likely will go for the ones with the most games. You figure more games more choices.

PS2 Online!

Now out of all the money Sony has suck from you gamers. They could establish a data center, hired some employees and manage the online portion of that console. Yet they left it up to the developers which should be spending more time creating games then manging DLC,Lag,Updates,Patches etc. If sony would have took that out of the hands of the developers and took control of that part themselves then maybe the online service would be a whole lot better.

[DezNutz]

The Cell Chip and Blu-Ray are nothing more than Trojan Horses in the PS3.

I disagree, I may give you the blue ray, but the Cell was designed specifically for the PS3, the blue ray is more like the DVD player in past PS2 (except Sony did not invent the DVD lol). Sure the Blue-Ray will be used for mainly for DVD players that support 1080i definition, but to have tha tsupport built into PS3 is a huge advantage. The Cell ship on the other hand was designed and devloped specifically by Sony (along with Toshiba, IBM) for the PS3. They "may" use it in other devices but make no mistake the primary reason for development is the PS3. The cell would of not been developed without the PS3 in mind, but the blue ray would of been.

Do not think for a moment that they are doing this for gamers. Contrary to that belief, they are doing it to save their company by utilizing their only truly profitable device for the last decade. If they fail or the PS3 were to fail, they so much in debt they could actually go bankrupt.

You really contradict yourself here. So Sony's future depends on the success of the PS3, but they do not care about gamers? This makes absolutley no sense, and Sony has proven anything but that to be the truth. The Playstation makes more money then any other Sony product, they learned this quickly in Playstation one days. So to support this product that makes their division they put more money into it, figured out what we like and what we don't like, made more of what we liked (controllers dual shock, ect.. ect..) and took away more of what we dislike. Sony if nothing else, is a great company at figuring out what the consumer wants both with their TVs, digital camers, or in this case game consoles, and they work pretty good at deliver what we the consumers or gamers want. Sony does depend alot on the Playstation console now, and this is not a good thing? They have worked at using alot of money hours develping more of what we want, and delivering more games we want to play then any other console out there, even your beloved x-b0x. Now microsoft on the other hand does not depend on what their next console does, they could care less if it makes money or losses money, so wat do they really care what gamers want ect??

Sony knew way before ps2 was put out that it was going to be hard to develop for, but yet you call that the best.

Yeah I and a few 100 million other gamers call the Playstation2 the best. Sorry fanboy, but if you honestly think the Playstation2 is not the best console on the market right now, then your ignorance is something I cannot fight. PS2 owns the current market in numbers, games, and any market evaluator you can find.

And you wrong about MS not investing.

Where did I say this? All I am saying is at least Sony is taking a leap developing totally new technology (cell, blue-ray) and using this for next generation console. Where as others, including Microsoft are not. Look at X-Box2, what new technology does it include that Micrsoft developed? I say this becusae microsoft has ver little invested in the next console, they seem to be like most other game makers, adapting newest existing market technology to gaming enviroment. They are taking no risk in developing their own technolgy are making their own chips ect... instead they show that they are not invested in game console market, they could care less if the console make money or losses (as Microsoft hsa said before bout current x-box).

Those are the most obvious ones that everyone look for and bring up. Majority of the lib is *expletive deleted* that sony let slide through based on quantity instead of qualtiy. Now take the avg consumer that goes in a store if you the xbox aisle and the ps2 aisle by each other and have that person choose. They most likely will go for the ones with the most games. You figure more games more choices.

Don't even get me started about quality, X-Box has 500 some titles but how many are actually even played? Do you honestley think that people select PS2 becuase they got more game only? How about they got better games, how about they got more games that gamers want to play? This is why PS2 is dominating current market, becuase they got more top quality games, that gamers want to play.

I play on Sony online play, and you know what I like it. IT IS FREE TO US GAMERS. If y ou had a choice of playing Madden online (forget about PS2 supporting mic on madden before X-Box) would you want to pay a monthly fee just to play some madden, or would you want to play for free? Sony could develop on online support similar to X-Box but then they would have to charge us, and right now gamers have said they dont wanna pay. As far as having help desk ect.. Sony does have support for online play and gamers to report play or get help login in ect...

[cyrusmg]

"Sony if nothing else, is a great company at figuring out what the consumer wants both with their TVs, digital camers, or in this case game consoles, and they work pretty good at deliver what we the consumers or gamers want."

i wouldn't say Sony is so great at GIVING US WHAT WE WANT. Id say they rae really good at giving us what we are willing to pay for. MS does not actually care about gamers. Sony does not actually care about gamers. The only way in which they car is the way in which we buy their product. They care that we like their product ebough to buy it. THAT is why games get made, cause it give people something they want to spend time doing.

Sony execs don't go home and loose sleep over the idea of "Gamers" not being completely satisfied, because as long as you bought their systema dna few games to play on it, they couldn't care less if you enjoy your system, at least not until they are about to release a new system, but then they will just remind you of all the great things you DID like this time. That way, they keep people who were initially upset at their console, coming back for more.

And i do agree with Siren that this is kind of a hail mary pass on Sony's side, but i think it is the perfect thing to do. They have been having trouble competeing with iPod and Dell, so it makes sense to build a network of devices that team up against these other companies, and to use the PS3 is the perfect way to seemlessly integrate it into the populous. Of course, i'm still conflicted as to whether i want my toaster talking to my TV.

[Colonel Cortez]

Shit M$ really put 5 billions in it, lol didnt help thougg did it. I see Deznutz point and i totally agrees, with him, and Siren you dont seem to pleasant against Sony...but i wont be asking questyons about that sorta thing. And i'd say Sony cares MORE about gamers than microsoft, they do more to please the crowd, i know of course that they are mainly in the buisness for the money, but i'd say Sony is the most Fan/public friendly gaming/multimedia company there is. They did sell the PS1 and 2 for a lower cost than it costed to make it. of course the hardware price went down later on and they started to make money on the console itself.....alot of money.

and speaking of money, Siren i doubt they would go bankrupt even if the PS3 failed, you are underestimating how much cash Sony is making, alright they arent Microsof
t, but they make a shit load of money, and as for the 300 million dollars on the cell they do have more than 300 millions dollars ya know. and Even if the SP3 fails, they are ganne use the CELL in so may other things that it wouldt be as big of a loss as if they were only using it in the PS3. Think of that. And microsoft are just in the game for one reason MONEy, of course i cant blame them. But it dont seem as they care as much as Sony or nintendo, Nintendd cares more, but they always just screw up so everybody just feels sorry for them.

[james3579]

both sides have good points, but over all i have to go with deznut. i think that sony does stuff for both us and themselves, its like a "you scratch my back ill scratch yours" relationship. with M$ it seems more like "you give us money and well see if we can get you something half decent"

those are my 2 cents

[Thegamingdwarf]

I sort of agree with james3579 but as most people know the big companies are in it for the money. They have the sort of relationship the james3579 mentioned but the ill scratch yours a little less than you have just scratched mine is maybe more prominent. Fortunately this sort of prodcer and consumer relationship is good because if sony doesnt put money in to create better things we dont get what we all love, gaming and sony dosent gets its money because we will stop bying it if it doesnt put money in to please us so then we by th... You see its a big loop. But sony can be slighty more relaxed about its consumer relations because it has the money to sustain itself if it dosent put money in(that last comment i made is really confusing, even me ).

[james3579]

*head explodes* i got the gist of it, i think thats enough

[X2]

Hey you guys need to quit it. You wouldn't know if you're taking it in the butt even if someone was shouting behind you trying to warn ya.

The xbox is a console that was built by gamers. MS took a survey in which they went around to homes asking gamers what they wanted in a console (Built in network,HD, Online Service) wah la you have the xbox. MS cares about there gamers more then you guys know. Anything we ask for we are giving. It's never forces upon us and the choices are made by the gamer. Yes MS put 5 bil into not only the xbox, but the future of the product. And stop given me this stuff about sony the only company that is creating new technology. There thousand of companies creating and innovating everyday on the level or even beyond the level of sony. MS is one of those companies, don't think for minute MS is not in it to win it.

Yes sony has majority of the console market, but the Q4 of last year coming to this year MS owned 46% of the market and was outselling the ps2. Check the numbers if you would like.

I mean what has sony giving y'all that was actually worth paying for. I mean I know MS Charge for Xbox live, but the service is worth paying for. We have the choice of paying a monthly fee of $5.99 or $50.00 for a 1yr subscription. But look at the things that come with that. Majority of the Downloadable Content on live is free. MS does not charge. They leave that option up to the developers. Some do and some don't. All of the games are lag free. You might get some lag here and there but that is not MS. That's the user connection having latency issues.

Not to mention

xboxlive(24countries)
Voice mail
Voice chat
Text messeges
Chat Rooms(In pregame lobby)
1 account 1 gametag across all games
Friend list(Up to a 100players)
DLC
Clans Support(free)(Build Your own clan up to 100players)
Online Demo(Via Xbox Live Arcade)
GUI(Live has it own GUI)
System link(For people who don't have live they can system link through there pc and do a wan over the internet or create lan with up to 16 xbox or more)
Updates/Patches(Free)
Spectator Modes
Comentator Modes
Linking Gamertag via MSN Messenger,Passport and Bungie.net
Game with Fame(You get a chance to play with your favorite celebrity over live)
Map Editor (First To Fight, Pariah)
Custom Soundtrack
Xbox media xtender kit( transfer video,audio,images, movies etc from your pc to your xbox. And it allow you to control your tv and your pc from the xbox.)
Glitches in games are able to be fixed seamlessly across live.

1 to 16 players via live or 1-32

As a matter of fact Black Hawk down will be the first game on xbox live to have 50 players on one map. I talking 25 vs 25 mp,ctf,ts you name it. Also Stars Battlefront just got an update over live. It was 1-16 players, now its 1-32 players.

I mean if this isn't given gamers what they want I mean I don't know what is. And just think this is MS first console. Sony is on its third console and you are just now about to get thises features.


The xbox is an console that makes beautiful graphics and great games with more to come.
Halo2
Splinter Cell
Rainbow Six 3
Conker Live and Uncut
Stars Wars Republican commando
Doom 3
Pariah
Unreal Championship 2
Iron Phoenix( The first fighting game to have 16 players in one arena via xbox live)
First To Fight
Forza Motorsport(Online career, create, trade cars,parts or car show via live)
Jade Empire(Rpg 30 different fighting styles per character)

This is how MS give back to there gamers. By signing and creating great games. Given there gamers choices and not making those choices for them. Great online service that never fells and its always someone on. MS is constantly giving back to theere gamers in more than one area.

[james3579]

but it has 3 good games, if you have feature, you need good games, and thats where xbox fell short by miles

[X2]

You know it has more than three good games. If that the case where would sony be without gta

[Kejun]

Ok, do your research on Microsoft and Sony. You will find that microsoft started by Bill Gates buying Dos for $25 and adding some restrictions to it that force you to buy the next version when you get a better computer. Later Gates bought Windows off of a teenager for millions.... All those experienced programmers and he has to buy what will become his OS off of some kid and **** it up too.
Sony, tried launching Beta, didn't join forces with other companies, lost out to VHS which had taken in some "friends". Now Sony joins forces with as many companies as possible so that it's vastly superior technology will actually take off. Yes, I said vastly superior technology... The playstation had half the graphical capabilities of the 64 AND only 4mb of RAM, and yet it had the better graphics.
The PS2 had by far worse specs than the x-box and yet games like GT4 are giving it equal graphics to the x-box.

Sony is in it for the gamers, themselves, and to increase the technological level of humanity not through better physical stats, but better implementation of those stats.
Microsoft is in it for the gamers aswell, but mostly they are in it for money. Windows is by far one of the worst OS I have ever seen in my life, only reason I use it is because they have bought enough of the competition to have the most programs on it. Even if they don't own them, they still "own" them.

[cyrusmg]

The xbox is a console that was built by gamers. MS took a survey in which they went around to homes asking gamers what they wanted in a console (Built in network,HD, Online Service) wah la you have the xbox.

HA. and you think MS is the first, VISIONARY company to try asking people who are going to buy a product, what they want? EVERY single company does this, it is not some cool thing that MS cares so much about the gamers so they are going to ask what we want.

It seems to me that you are so busy loving everything about XBOX that you seem blind to the fact that they are a software company, who is trying to become a hardware company. Sony is a hardware company, and up until MS that was enough for hem to control the Console market.

Your love is blind, and your hate is even more blind. There is nothing i could say that would make you understand that such shortsighted adoration of ANYTHING can only result in that something hurting you, so go ahead and keep bad mouthing Sony. When MS decides they don't want to make consoles anymore cause Sony beat them badly, I hope you're pride forces you to never be able to buy another console.

EDIT: I know, I know, I'm sorry. Got a little carried away there. Nothing personal, just opinions.

[DezNutz]

Hey you guys need to quit it. You wouldn't know if you're taking it in the butt even if someone was shouting behind you trying to warn ya..

Alright I don't have to read more then one line in your post to realize you are an idoit, x-box fanboy, who absolutley has no idea wtf you are talking about.

Yes MS put 5 bil into not only the xbox, but the future of the product.

source?

And stop given me this stuff about sony the only company that is creating new technology. There thousand of companies creating and innovating everyday on the level or even beyond the level of sony. MS is one of those companies, don't think for minute MS is not in it to win it.

What other game console companies have put money into developing next generation technology for video game consoles, and what technology is it? Please provide sources, becuase as I have said before you have no clue what you are talking about you just know that you hate sony, and are microsoft fanboy. Sony leads all game console developers in new technology specifically used for next generation consoles, they put more money, build more plants, and devlopment into creating new technology then any other console out there, and nothing you have typed has said anything different then that.

Yes sony has majority of the console market, but the Q4 of last year coming to this year MS owned 46% of the market and was outselling the ps2. Check the numbers if you would like.

I do like and again you are dead wrong. The "console market" is not the home console sold in U.S. market only. And if getting less then half percentage in one limited market is the high point of your system then you are very sad. Microsoft had never outsold PS2 in the market (which includes Europe and Japan) so you may want to stop believing the half-truths told by Siren and others on this board and check your own facts. Sony still owns the entire market, and microsoft has never owned 40% of the console market any month, any year.

All of the games are lag free. You might get some lag here and there but that is not MS. That's the user connection having latency issues.

Ok they don't have lag, but they do depending on the host and players involved, well besides contradicting yourself, there is no difference in this on Sony. Except any user can create a 16 player room on Socom, and it will lag depending on that users connection where as in X-Box live the user who is creating the room is limited to room size depending on his/her connection. Not everyone can make a 16, or 32 player room, only those with highest connection rate can, and in some games when that user that creates the room leaves the room disbands, where as in Socom the host is just passed to next in room.

Not to mention Socom has all the following for free without a monthly charge:

24countries
Voice chat
Text messeges
Chat Rooms(In pregame lobby)
1 account 3 gametag
Friend list(Up to a 100players)
Clans Support(free)(Build Your own clan up to 32players)
GUI(socom has it own GUI)
System link(For people who don't have live they can system link through there ps2 and do a wan over the internet or create lan with up to 16 ps2 or more)
Updates/Patches(Free)
Spectator Modes

1 to 16 players all users can create 16 users not just some


Now you can list all the half-decent games on x-box that you play, but if you honeslty think X-Box has more top quality games then PS2, than that is just more ignorance I cannot say anything against. One reason Microsoft still doesn't get it, is becuase you can have the best online system, you can have the best technical system with hard drive ect, but if you dont have the best games, you lose. Don'y even began listing half quality games, cause the majority of gamers have already spoken and the numbers don't lie, the best games are on PS2.

Now back on topic, this is not a Sony vs Microsoft thread like you X-Box fanboys like to make this forum and every string you post in try to be (napolean syndrome), this is a thread to how much money sony has put back into devloping the next generation system, how much of their own resources they have developed into putting the new technology into next generation, if you got something to comment on that I would like to hear it.

[james3579]

what exactly did MS so for the xbox hardware? uh direc... no, oh they made the proc... no, the RAM... wait, no. what did MS do!???

[X2]

So what about the companies MS is partnering with. ATI,TSMC,IBM,Tech14,SIS so that they vastly superior technology will take off. Yes I said vastly superior technology. Yes MS is a software company one of the best in the business if not the best that is partnering with some of the best hardware companies in the business. Software drives hardware and vice versa. I have np problem with sony and I do not hate them I am dissappoint in them. I use to play the ps2 until the xbox came along. Everybody have a right to there own opinion. I respect every gamer no matter what system they play, but I also like a good debate.

[X2]

* Xbox was the only platform to see year-to-year growth during Q4 as well as the full calendar year 2004, while the overall market was down year-to-year.
* Xbox market share for 2004 was an impressive 29.5 percent, increasing 7 points from the 2003 calendar year.
* Overall software sales for Xbox lead the way in 2004, growing units sales 44 percent during Q4 and 48 percent for the calendar year 2004.
* The Xbox Live online gaming service has surpassed more than 1.4 million members around the world, cementing its place as a leader in the digital entertainment landscape
* The launch of Halo 2 (6.4 million copies sold world-wide and counting) was a huge highlight for Xbox fans in 2004 – and there's no let up in 2005. Hotly anticipated titles like Forza Motorsport, Conker: Live and Reloaded, Jade Empire, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, and Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory are just some of the fantastic titles coming for Xbox in the first half of this year.

[X2]

MS have they hands into everything that's xbox. That means that the Xbox Advance Hardware team and the companies that they partner with custom built the xbox. MS plays a major role in the creation of there console. Plus is the software in it that allows the developer to utilizes the full potential of it with ease. With tricks like HDR and Normal Mapping.

Why do you need three gamertags. And please stop saying we pay monthly that if you one to other than that we pay $50 once a year. It's called a 1yr subscription.

[DezNutz]

Again, Micrsoft is partening with existing PC hardware companies to have them use their latest PC hardware technology and "adapt" that towards console gaming. Microsoft is not taking any risk here by developing their own hardware, they simpy rely on existing PC hardware companies to develop their technology and adapt that newest technology to the console market. This is a far different approach then Sony takes, developing it's own hardware from ground up with console gaming in mind from the start. This different approach ends up with superior hardware such as the cell processor, and takes more balls, money, time, then just signhning exisitng pc hardware companies and adapting there stuff.

You keep saying Microsoft is vastly superior software company, in their overall products I would agree, but in console gaming I would not. In console gaming there is really only one software that matters, and that is games. What games has microsoft developed for X-Box? I know sony makes their own games 989 sports ect.. and sighned exclusive rights for other top console game developers, but microsoft and specifically the x-box lacks in is top quality games. Anyone who is not blind fanboy has to know more top quality games that gamers want to play exist on the PS2 then on the X-Box. This is the software that matters in console gaming so get out of here with Microsoft being better software company, cause when it comes to console gaming, software is about the games, and the best games are on the PS2.

All I am saying in this post is that one company (Sony) has taken money they made off us gamers (PS1, & PS2) and re-invested that money into their next generation console via the cell chip, blue laser, ect.. They are putting our money to work for better development of new technology and applying that technology specifically for the game console market. Microsoft is not doing that, they are just dependant upon existing PC manufactures to devlop their technology to next level and adapting that to the console market.

[The Chocobo Kid]

All this M$ and sony talk make's me really think and say Poor Nintendo no one care about you at all,looks like Nintendo is going to my basement with the dreamcast and other sage friends

[DezNutz]

First off you don't quote a source for those numbers so there is no way to tell if those numbers are U.S. market only or Entire world market, but from just looking at the numbers, they look very much like U.S. market only numbers.

* The Xbox Live online gaming service has surpassed more than 1.4 million members around the world, cementing its place as a leader in the digital entertainment landscape

PS2 online has more then 3.5 million members. If X-Box is a "leader", I guess that makes PS2 the owner of online console gaming.

Hotly anticipated titles like Forza Motorsport, Conker: Live and Reloaded, Jade Empire, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, and Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory are just some of the fantastic titles coming for Xbox in the first half of this year.

The only game I would even want to play in that list is GTA, but since I already got in on PS2 and have been playing for months now, I don't want it again anyways. Never heard of the other games, I am guessing Splinter Cell is a PS2 also game, since the rest in the series are this way.

[X2]

MS is not adopting existing hardware from these companies and these companies are not going to give MS existing hardware and say here is the xbox2. We don't know what MS is doing hardware wise because officially nothing has been said. I do know that the xbox was use to set MS up for the next gen. So you saying sony didn't partner with exist pc companies(IBM,Toshiba). Believe me when I say this the next gen will come down to software and which system is more easier to take advantage of.

[The Chocobo Kid]

now lets not forget nVidia that is being built in the ps3