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  1. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nut_Man View Post
    I read it from some analyst. Which really doesnt mean much since they just make educated guesses, although it was the same guy that predicted the 360 price drop(he was off by a few weeks I think).
    you are talking about Mr. Patcher (I think that is right)...that comment was based on his speculation...notice since then he has yet to say anything about it...no one has a true sourc to what is caused the delay...remember he is an analys...

  2. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saigon View Post
    you are talking about Mr. Patcher (I think that is right)...that comment was based on his speculation...notice since then he has yet to say anything about it...no one has a true sourc to what is caused the delay...remember he is an analys...
    Well yeah thats why I said it doesnt really matter since it was just an analyst.

    They just make educated guesses for the most part. In reality I dont think either console is at fault. If anyone is at fault for the gta4 delay it's rockstar.

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    Ah so what Sino was saying about the X360 holding back GTA4 for the PS3 was also speculation was it?

    Ok... Sino mate, give me some links when you tell me these things, because I don't want speculation, sorry.
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  4. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGO View Post
    Nexgenwars & VGchartz are banned from multiple forums, do you know why?


    End of Augest 07, 3 months before PS3 launch D


    Beginning of July 05, 5 months before 360 launch D
    Thanks for disproving your argument


    Like Nexgenwars?


    You need to hang around here a bit longer, where ever forum you was on before didn't do ya any good

    Actually CELL based devs kits where out way, way ,way before the tri-core 360 based dev kits where ever out. The final SDK kit of the 360 was the first one with the actual CPU in it.

    In terms of actual hardware, Sony had dev kits out with way closer actual hardware out for a lot longer. Your arguments would hold water if the final SDK kit was the first to feature the Cell, but it wasnt, and about 4 months before Devs got to play with 3 cores on the 360, they were alreayd using the Cell + Nvidia Card combo.
    In terms of working with the Cell, they have much, much longer to get use to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A7MAD View Post
    Ah so what Sino was saying about the X360 holding back GTA4 for the PS3 was also speculation was it?

    Ok... Sino mate, give me some links when you tell me these things, because I don't want speculation, sorry.
    he is basing it on how its basically illegal now to use multiple disks =P

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Actually CELL based devs kits where out way, way ,way before the tri-core 360 based dev kits where ever out. The final SDK kit of the 360 was the first one with the actual CPU in it.

    In terms of actual hardware, Sony had dev kits out with way closer actual hardware out for a lot longer. Your arguments would hold water if the final SDK kit was the first to feature the Cell, but it wasnt, and about 4 months before Devs got to play with 3 cores on the 360, they were alreayd using the Cell + Nvidia Card combo.
    In terms of working with the Cell, they have much, much longer to get use to it.
    I don't doubt you, but how do you know this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saigon View Post
    TGO...I am going to help you out a little...because you need it...MS does count replacements as sales...all systems sent to MS directly are being replace with new systems...and this is coming directly from the manufacturer...if you take it to a store such as best buy or target or whatever...they can not count those returned systems...

    http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=100879

    http://blogs.cnet.com/5530-13506_1-0...hreadID=228673

    this was posted a while ago...which was a good article...and explained a lot...and yes it is a blog...but at the same time he gives proof...read it over a disscuss...i will be waiting for responses...because i know it is coming...
    The single biggest problem with you consipiracy theory is that supporting evidance doesnt even closely or remotly back up such blatent untruths.
    I doubt youve heard of attach rate, or sell through, or any of those other wonderful marketing terms which basically means...PEOPLE BUY GAMES FOR THE DAM SYSTEM.

    Now, given you feel that there is only 6 million odd 360's in the world, then clearly just about everbody buys a larger porportion of games than they do for the Wii or PS3?

    Why is that?

    Because you theory is bull****, thats why it is. The 360 sells a lot of games, and devlopers know it, thats why they develop for the system.


    @rik: I knows this because we went through this on another thread about 4 weeks ago. Also go for a search on dev kit and sony in the forums, you'll find heaps of threads on when theese where releseased.
    FYI: Up untill the final Devkit, the 360 ran on nothing more than a Mac.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I doubt youve heard of attach rate, or sell through, or any of those other wonderful marketing terms which basically means...PEOPLE BUY GAMES FOR THE DAM SYSTEM.

    Now, given you feel that there is only 6 million odd 360's in the world, then clearly just about everbody buys a larger porportion of games than they do for the Wii or PS3?

    Why is that?

    Because you theory is bull****, thats why it is. The 360 sells a lot of games, and devlopers know it, thats why they develop for the system.
    That's because the Xbox 360 scratches the discs, and microsoft counts the replacements as sales.

  9. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by A7MAD View Post
    Ah so what Sino was saying about the X360 holding back GTA4 for the PS3 was also speculation was it?

    Ok... Sino mate, give me some links when you tell me these things, because I don't want speculation, sorry.
    If you google it you might find the news, it's a few month old. Do you want the President of Take-Two come out with an official statement saying Xbox360 or PS3 is holding back the development of GTA4, isn't it a bit too idealisitic to think people will be that honest. A lot of information come from some Journalists' sources where they choose to relay those info to us. Some of those info are accurate but tainted with opinions, some are just flat out wrong. I wouldn't call these info bull**** as long as the premise is right, the only thing is we may never know the really truth of it because developers don't share those kind of things with us, and the best thing we can do is to speculate with reason.

    he is basing it on how its basically illegal now to use multiple disks =P
    I don't think how many disks matter. The thing is the 360's version shown for preview wasn't running well, some preview articles have pointed this out. I know the PS3 version was never shown, I would think that they got the dev kit late, but that's another discussion.

    I'd like to know why Blue Dragon is not on PS3 beside the obvious, maybe it's illegal to fit everyting into one disc now.

  10. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by A7MAD View Post
    Thanks

    But I asked for proof.

    I can blog also...
    Something tells me you wouldn't believe me if I knocked at your door with a Rockstar representative, holding an ID, and a signed affidavit with the Pope's seal on it.

  11. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaytan View Post
    Something tells me you wouldn't believe me if I knocked at your door with a Rockstar representative, holding an ID, and a signed affidavit with the Pope's seal on it.
    You don't need to go to all that difficulty just some evidence like a link and not a blog will suffice. Maybe something from the developers, that'd be noteworthy.

    Cheers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sino View Post
    If you google it you might find the news, it's a few month old.
    Couldn't find it, can you find some proof for me please? Cheers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Actually CELL based devs kits where out way, way ,way before the tri-core 360 based dev kits where ever out. The final SDK kit of the 360 was the first one with the actual CPU in it.
    So what? Xenon's barely different from a multicore PPC with Altivec. Cell's different enough that, a couple of years later, people are still trying to figure out how to get it to work.

    In terms of actual hardware, Sony had dev kits out with way closer actual hardware out for a lot longer. Your arguments would hold water if the final SDK kit was the first to feature the Cell, but it wasnt, and about 4 months before Devs got to play with 3 cores on the 360, they were alreayd using the Cell + Nvidia Card combo.
    In terms of working with the Cell, they have much, much longer to get use to it.
    Four months is not enough to make up for the huge learning curve for a genuinely novel architecture. There's very little you need to know to target Xenon that you couldn't have been doing on a dual-Pentium III box with MMX or SSE. Cell is totally unlike other processors from a developer standpoint.

  13. #588
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Actually CELL based devs kits where out way, way ,way before the tri-core 360 based dev kits where ever out. The final SDK kit of the 360 was the first one with the actual CPU in it.

    In terms of actual hardware, Sony had dev kits out with way closer actual hardware out for a lot longer. Your arguments would hold water if the final SDK kit was the first to feature the Cell, but it wasnt, and about 4 months before Devs got to play with 3 cores on the 360, they were alreayd using the Cell + Nvidia Card combo.
    In terms of working with the Cell, they have much, much longer to get use to it.
    Cell isn't your ordinary daily processor and it took time to develop tools for it. This has to be the big factor why developers could'nt make real gamecode till final devkits were out. That's what I've thought all the way (reading about it since 05).

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    Why do Sony fans even care about which is the more powerful console?, they said they didn't care in the ps1 or ps2 days when they did not have the most powerful console , because "its all about the games".

    It still is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zenigomi View Post
    Why do Sony fans even care about which is the more powerful console?, they said they didn't care in the ps1 or ps2 days when they did not have the most powerful console , because "its all about the games".

    It still is.
    +rep

    It's always been about the games. 1st/3rd party support.
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  16. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by seebs View Post
    So what? Xenon's barely different from a multicore PPC with Altivec. Cell's different enough that, a couple of years later, people are still trying to figure out how to get it to work.



    Four months is not enough to make up for the huge learning curve for a genuinely novel architecture. There's very little you need to know to target Xenon that you couldn't have been doing on a dual-Pentium III box with MMX or SSE. Cell is totally unlike other processors from a developer standpoint.
    Agreed, the genius of MS was that they didnt try and convert the devlopers in to the CPU, rather they converted the software to run on the CPU's. ie. Get people programming in directx, then make a chip that works with directx.

    Had MS not been able to get Directx slotted over to the IBM cores, they would have been screwed, as it was, they gave developers an almost seemless integration path. On the other hand Sony are pushing the boundries with new things, and that makes it hellishly hard for devs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A7MAD View Post

    Couldn't find it, can you find some proof for me please? Cheers.
    Do you also want me to find an article of someone from Epic saying Gears of War couldn't be done on the PS3, or a Ubi dev saying PS3 couldn't handle Splinter Cell Conviction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sino View Post
    Do you also want me to find an article of someone from Epic saying Gears of War couldn't be done on the PS3, or a Ubi dev saying PS3 couldn't handle Splinter Cell Conviction.
    No just about La Noire. Oh yeah! and GTA4 you were saying also, thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sino View Post
    Do you also want me to find an article of someone from Epic saying Gears of War couldn't be done on the PS3, or a Ubi dev saying PS3 couldn't handle Splinter Cell Conviction.
    There is no such article regarding GTA4, stop trying to make stuff, up all we have is speculation from people suggesting it maybe because of the 360's lack of HDD, we have an equal amount of speculationthat they ran into difficultys on the PS3 version.

    Given...

    1/ GTA4 has only been shown up and running to the public on the 360

    2/ Rockstar reservadly suggested that the PS3 verison is only "a few weeks" behind in production

    Why the hell would you suggets its either version, could it not be that it just wont be ready? The Ps3 verison didnt magicallly pass the 360 version, as its the lead platform.

    Get over it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sino View Post
    Do you also want me to find an article of someone from Epic saying Gears of War couldn't be done on the PS3, or a Ubi dev saying PS3 couldn't handle Splinter Cell Conviction.
    lol. go see UT3 footage and tell me GeOW couldnt be done on ps3. lol. and splinter cell conviction? go see any other game coming out this christmas for equal if not better quality. and these games are coming out soon. lol.

    ahh i do enjoy this place.

    -Live the life you love, love the life you live-

  21. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    ...On the other hand Sony are pushing the boundries with new things, and that makes it hellishly hard for devs.
    That's clearly as overstatement. I don't know a single third-party developer that claimed PS3 being hellishly hard to develop for. Sure it's slightly harder to port games from 360 to it, then again, I'm sure if they made a game for PS3, it would be hard to port it over to the 360.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    There is no such article regarding GTA4, stop trying to make stuff, up all we have is speculation from people suggesting it maybe because of the 360's lack of HDD, we have an equal amount of speculationthat they ran into difficultys on the PS3 version.

    Given...

    1/ GTA4 has only been shown up and running to the public on the 360

    2/ Rockstar reservadly suggested that the PS3 verison is only "a few weeks" behind in production

    Why the hell would you suggets its either version, could it not be that it just wont be ready? The Ps3 verison didnt magicallly pass the 360 version, as its the lead platform.

    Get over it.
    .
    If rockstar ever showed ps3 footage looking worse than 360, ps3 fans would have freaked out and made a huge thing about how even if they look the same at release they would just rent it instead of buying it, so they never showed it at all. So how can you say that the ps3 version is doing better than the 360?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    That's clearly as overstatement. I don't know a single third-party developer that claimed PS3 being hellishly hard to develop for. Sure it's slightly harder to port games from 360 to it, then again, I'm sure if they made a game for PS3, it would be hard to port it over to the 360.
    I didnt say it made it hard to devlop for, read what I said, I said it makes it hellishly hard on devs.
    What I mean is they have to learn new stuff, and its a step learning curve. once they get their head around it, they will be fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldierboy View Post
    .
    If rockstar ever showed ps3 footage looking worse than 360, ps3 fans would have freaked out and made a huge thing about how even if they look the same at release they would just rent it instead of buying it, so they never showed it at all. So how can you say that the ps3 version is doing better than the 360?
    I didnt say that at all? Infact I implied the PS3 version was behind on devlopment. Actually I didnt say that ROCKSTAR said it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I didnt say it made it hard to devlop for, read what I said, I said it makes it hellishly hard on devs.
    What I mean is they have to learn new stuff, and its a step learning curve. once they get their head around it, they will be fine.


    I didnt say that at all? Infact I implied the PS3 version was behind on devlopment. Actually I didnt say that ROCKSTAR said it.
    And who cares when both of them have a trade-off? More power in the long run or more flexibility in the short-run? It can be argued either way. So I don't get your point for bringing that up.

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    Anyone else thinking shut the hell up with the tech talk and let the games prove the systems right or wrong?

    Come on, I know I'm not the only one.
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