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  1. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by X2 View Post
    Were talking about year old Alpha kit specs. Sony up there specs after the backlash they were getting from devs. Until we see final hardware specs that are official and not speculation, then and only then can we make a proper assessment.
    No we are not. We are talking about current specs which lines up with old revealed specs which gives even more credintial to the leaks. According to DF, alpha and current kit spec lines up. Again, it will be hard for MS or Sony to change spec at this point without taking a design/ manufacturing cost risks.

    As for your so called, changes in alpha on Orbis. Source?
    The bad press and rumors has not forced MS to show their hand so we will have to wait and see.
    Maybe because their hand are already shown? Mostly because numerous credible sites claim it. It is bias to assume that all the bad news are wrong.

    If anything the likely hood of the claims being true is higher than not being true by far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Makes perfect sense to me because that's exactly what consoles are anyway IMO.
    Well, all the criticism of dev kit spec are based on belief that next box should be gaming console. not entertainment center.

    slow 8Gb ram over faster slower ram would explain this very well. MS wants to make epic universal entertainment center. Its a different market from what PS4 and Wii U are going. This entrepreneurial move will net them great profit if they do this right and market is ripe for this.
    Last edited by FableMaster; 02-13-2013 at 07:00.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FableMaster View Post


    There isn't much you can change due to manufacturing/Designing process. The fact that it has not changed something should tell you something. Especially now that volume is very very high.

    Its only a circumstantial evidence, but its a dam good one. MS and Sony will run a major risk if they want to change their spec this late.
    Ignoring the rumors about a last minute change and fabbing started in Late December?

    We also ignoring the fact that no one knew the specs of X360's GPU until 3 months out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FableMaster View Post

    Well, all the criticism of dev kit spec are based on belief that next box should be gaming console. not entertainment center.

    slow 8Gb ram over faster slower ram would explain this very well. MS wants to make epic universal entertainment center. Its a different market from what PS4 and Wii U are going. This entrepreneurial move will net them great profit if they do this right and market is ripe for this.
    Entertainment center or entertainment device? First you said the latter now you change to the former. You changed your stance....lol Don't believe the hype.They are all after the same market which is the living room. The only difference is that MS is better at marketing theirs as such.

    Sony has made it clear that it views Microsoft as its direct competitor.

    Tretton cited Sony's new advertising slogan where the company claims the PlayStation "only does everything." He said that the PlayStation 3 might be a gaming console at its core, "but it's so much more: Blu-ray movies, downloading music content, downloading video content, surfing the Internet. This is really the central entertainment device for a room."

    In the end, Tretton wanted to drive the point home that the PlayStation 3 is the mass-market entertainment device that can beat them all. When discussing the PlayStation 3's competition in the marketplace, Tretton said that when it comes down to it, his company "has a much better entertainment infrastructure" than its competitors. And that, according to Tretton, is central to Sony's appeal going forward.
    Discussing senior management at big retailers, Tretton said that Sony tries to "convince them that the PlayStation 3 can help sell multiple devices in their stores and when they understand that, they're very receptive" to moving the PS3 out of just the gaming aisle.

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-10369566-17.html
    That was about ps3 and I don't think PS4 will be any different.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 02-13-2013 at 07:31.

  4. #229
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    FableMaster you will be eating crow, but don't worry you will have some company!!!
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

  5. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Ignoring the rumors about a last minute change and fabbing started in Late December?
    Sources please. And not some random guy's post. Lol

    Quote Originally Posted by X2 View Post
    FableMaster you will be eating crow, but don't worry you will have some company!!!
    It's just my speculation vs urs. Only difference is that yours is mostly based on your feeling towards particular console and mine is on few credible journal sites.

    You can fish out more Spanish or some no name article to back you up. Lol


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    Last edited by FableMaster; 02-13-2013 at 07:48.

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by FableMaster View Post
    Sources please. And not some random guy's post. Lol



    It's just my speculation vs urs. Only difference is that yours is mostly based on your feeling towards particular console and mine is on few credible journal sites.

    You can fish out more Spanish or some no name article to back you up. Lol


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    No feelings bro, like I said I still expect kryptos to come with dual gpu's
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

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    Quote Originally Posted by FableMaster View Post
    Sources please. And not some random guy's post. Lol



    It's just my speculation vs urs. Only difference is that yours is mostly based on your feeling towards particular console and mine is on few credible journal sites.

    You can fish out more Spanish or some no name article to back you up. Lol


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    Credible and rumours don't go together rofl.
    Thats why they say "rumour".

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Credible and rumours don't go together rofl.
    Thats why they say "rumour".
    Mars 1 = 60w 1.2tf & 16 rops

    MS can double up these

    mars x2 = 120w 2.4tf & 32rop

    What do you think mynd?
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

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    Quote Originally Posted by X2 View Post
    Mars 1 = 60w 1.2tf & 16 rops

    MS can double up these

    mars x2 = 120w 2.4tf & 32rop

    What do you think mynd?
    I think VGLeaks are either justt plain lying or dont know the full story because the 2 articles they have posted recently makes no sense....

    The GPU does not require that all three display planes be updated at the same frequency. For instance, the title might decide to render the world at 60 Hz and the UI at 30 Hz, or vice-versa. The hardware also does not require the display planes to be the same size from one frame to the next.

    The system reserves the top display plane for itself, which effectively decouples system rendering from title rendering. This decoupling removes certain output constraints that exist on the Xbox 360. For example, on Durango the system can update at a steady frame rate even when the title does not. The system can also render at a lower or higher resolution than the title, or with different color settings.
    You cant decouple system rendering from title rendering in any way shape or form, other than to be looking at another GPU.
    You may as well just use render to texture targets otherwise.

    And in this situation, they are now suggesting 3 GPU's?
    Regardless, minimum 2 different rendering frequencies is impossible without two GPU's.
    Now, how would dual GPU's work?
    Split the scene into two different depths, then combine them at the end I guess, one on top of the other.

    If this three plane system is true, then yeah 3 socs's
    Last edited by mynd; 02-13-2013 at 08:37.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I think VGLeaks are either justt plain lying or dont know the full story because the 2 articles they have posted recently makes no sense....



    You cant decouple system rendering from title rendering in any way shape or form, other than to be looking at another GPU.
    You may as well just use render to texture targets otherwise.

    And in this situation, they are now suggesting 3 GPU's?
    So this might give weight to the 3 SOCs???
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by X2 View Post
    So this might give weight to the 3 SOCs???
    Yup. Although I would say 2 mars and 1 Venus if you just using the 2nd plane for just a hud.

    But I don't know why you would bother, hud work is like an after thought. Its not enough to warrant a GPU, or even a plane to be honest.
    BU then again alpha blending is gpu intensive.

    Could this be a dual GPU rendering system with foreground rendering, and background rendering on 2 different rendering chips.

    With an automated alpha blend, then yeah this would be piss easy to do and double your GPU power.

    Would be so simple, hell I never ever thought about doing it like this.

    You just send the various renders of to different gpus based on z (depth).

    Wow. If this isnt the way they are doing it, its the way they should lol.

    Tessalators and vector transforms could be done one dedicated chip, then shovel the renders of based on z. Hmmmm
    Last edited by mynd; 02-13-2013 at 08:45.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Yup. Although I would say 2 mars and 1 Venus if you just using the 2nd plane for just a hud.

    But I don't know why you would bother, hud work is like an after thought. Its not enough to warrant a GPU, or even a plane to be honest.
    BU then again alpha blending is gpu intensive.

    Could this be a dual GPU rendering system with foreground rendering, and background rendering on 2 different rendering chips.

    With an automated alpha blend, then yeah this would be piss easy to do and double your GPU power.

    Would be so simple, hell I never ever thought about doing it like this.

    You just send the various renders of to different gpus based on z (depth).

    Wow. If this isnt the way they are doing it, its the way they should lol.

    Tessalators and vector transforms could be done one dedicated chip, then shovel the renders of based on z. Hmmmm
    That was the rumor that got downplayed 1x Venus and 2x Mars, misterxmedia might make fools out of a lot of people and his source could be right. lol
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by X2 View Post
    That was the rumor that got downplayed 1x Venus and 2x Mars, misterxmedia might make fools out of a lot of people and his source could be right. lol
    Time will tell, but I can tell you this:



    Makes no sense in terms of a plane. Anybody spot a dedicated plane chip, or 3 buffers in that?

  14. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Credible and rumours don't go together rofl.
    Thats why they say "rumour".
    So You and me has same credibility as DF? There is rumor and there is credible info.

    Yea. Lol so no source. And more special sauce argument


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    You guys are mental! lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Credible and rumours don't go together rofl.
    Thats why they say "rumour".
    What?

    Rumors can have credibility too...

    Sure, I don't believe in rumors normally but they explained it pretty well and it seems pretty believable, not saying everything but they seem to make sense as far as having kits from a while back and that likely no drastic changes will be made.

    Not to mention, these rumors coincide with leaks from other websites. Are they all in on it?

    Let's not get like those Pro-PS3 fans from back in the day when they would start discrediting websites because they didn't agree with the article.

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    I have heard nothing about MS finalizing hardware.....
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

  18. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by X2 View Post
    I have heard nothing about MS finalizing hardware.....
    Very true the Durango SDK havent been finalised but could get the announcement at next months GDC.

    uuummmmm...Fried Beer iis a reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by X2 View Post
    I have heard nothing about MS finalizing hardware.....
    Oh you didn't know it's all over the internet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    What?

    Rumors can have credibility too...

    Sure, I don't believe in rumors normally but they explained it pretty well and it seems pretty believable, not saying everything but they seem to make sense as far as having kits from a while back and that likely no drastic changes will be made.

    Not to mention, these rumors coincide with leaks from other websites. Are they all in on it?

    Let's not get like those Pro-PS3 fans from back in the day when they would start discrediting websites because they didn't agree with the article.
    Again, the reason they are called rumours is because they are just that.
    DF for example sights several sources but doesn't for example
    Go deep into the display planes. Why, cause vgleaks hadnt written that article.

    Whats there source again, yes thats right, other people articles and industry "insiders" that have "confirmed" these specs.
    Last edited by mynd; 02-13-2013 at 18:58.

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    I don't care what the specs of the Xbox 3, so long as we have some great games like this gen. If we do, then I am going to rock out with my $#@! out.

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  23. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Again, the reason they are called rumours is because they are just that.
    DF for example sights several sources but doesn't for example
    Go deep into the display planes. Why, cause vgleaks hadnt written that article.

    Whats there source again, yes thats right, other people articles and industry "insiders" that have "confirmed" these specs.
    I don't know what display planes are.

    But you do have a point there.

  24. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Again, the reason they are called rumours is because they are just that.
    DF for example sights several sources but doesn't for example
    Go deep into the display planes. Why, cause vgleaks hadnt written that article.

    Whats there source again, yes thats right, other people articles and industry "insiders" that have "confirmed" these specs.
    Using same argument. Any paramount inside leak in politics and etc are nothing but "rumours" because they r not official.

    According to you, it does not matter reputable journalist says this that with "sources". It is just a "rumour "cause nothing official.

    You r just classifying as rumours for obvious bias. There is clear definition of rumours and these arent it. Difference is credible sources and journals.

    In this case, both exist. BTW, taking a pot shots at DF's credibility only makes ur underlying motivation obvious. They have far more credibility than you and me anyways.


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    Quote Originally Posted by FableMaster View Post

    slow 8Gb ram over faster slower ram would explain this very well. MS wants to make epic universal entertainment center. Its a different market from what PS4 and Wii U are going. This entrepreneurial move will net them great profit if they do this right and market is ripe for this.
    Nonsense. MS and sony are going after the same market. They both will be marketed as entertainment devices as well just like they did with PS3 and xbox360. Don't try to act like MS isn't sony's competitor. I already proved you wrong on that one with the words of Tretton himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FableMaster View Post

    According to you, it does not matter reputable journalist says this that with "sources". It is just a "rumour "cause nothing official.
    Bingo!

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