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  1. #26
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    Awesome video and the engine looks incredible
    Plato and Aristotle, a detail of The School of Athens, a fresco by Raphael. Aristotle gestures to the earth, representing his belief in knowledge

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varsh View Post
    The thing is you're only thinking of games in the First and Third person genre, I don't think you realise that UE3 is one of the most versatile game engines around, there are many games that use UE3 for even 2D games too which you wouldn't even think used the UE3 engine.
    The one I was most surprised to see running Ue3 was The Wheelman, that's a somewhat open work driving game. As you said the engine doesn't define the game or the overall look, the developers do.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varsh View Post
    UE3 is a very old engine now, in fact even Valve's source engine 1.5 is newer (2006).Why do you think there's limitations in UE3? Because it's a nine year old engine, for what it does though is amazing. Mass Effect (2 and 3) turned into Gears as a designer choice based on what they wanted to do, Mass Effect 1 was still a very different game and also used UE3. BioShock 1 and 2 you could tell used an older UE3 build, but Infinite didn't look anything like a UE3 game yet it did feel smooth like a UE3 game.

    However saying that invisible walls, knee high impassable barriers and stiff animations is a limitation of the engine is rubbish, have you even used UE3 in a development environment? BioShock has never had very good animations, in fact most games I can think of don't have very good animations, almost every single game has knee high barriers, even CryEngine games have that, even invisible walls! What you're mentioning is designer issues not game engine issues.

    The thing is you're only thinking of games in the First and Third person genre, I don't think you realise that UE3 is one of the most versatile game engines around, there are many games that use UE3 for even 2D games too which you wouldn't even think used the UE3 engine.
    Age doesn't save the engine. Lighting model and AI were redone around gears 3, animation/etc. should have been given the same treatment. moot point in light of the UE4, but still relevant to UE3 considering a very large number of games this gen ran it.

    I bring up invisible walls and knee high barriers as it is something apparent in almost all UE games. Meaning that a a large contributor to those designer choices lay with the engine. As i say, only technically was it awful. I understand that it might be an easy engine to work with but there lies the problem. I read a little piece somewhere that said the UE is a very straightforward engine to work with; if you wanted a window to a skybox, you merely added the window and the engine would make it so the player saw out into the skybox. Simple. looks nice and easy to start up.

    But as a point of reference of where im coming from. Alex covered Dust 514 extensively for PSU. i read almost every article and then decided to look into it further (trailers, web site etc). As i watched my first trailer i feared seeing the UE logo pop up, and sure enough, toward the end of the trailer up pops the UE logo. colour me devastated and subsequently uninterested. STILL, the scope had me interested, so i got my beta key, downloaded the client and booted up DUST 514. To say it played exactly like the picture i had in my head cannot be understated.

    COD has an archaic engine yet it managed to hold up well and even implemented contextualised knee high barriers animations to work around old limitations...much like the newer engines do.

    The games that actually do well with the engine pretty much distance themselves significantly from where they started from. these are the good games. UE3 has no method for cell shading, Gearbox made it so. UE has no support for CQC, that bourne game showed it could be done, subsequently being fully realised with the batman games. Bioshock infinite basically redid all the AI coding. the further away studios get from the engine, the better the end result.

    UE is such a poor show, take dust again for example. your character cant even step over a kerb in some instances. and it not like its something CCP are doing. mega bucks spending Bioware with Mass Effect 2-3 have similar problems where at certain angles you cant step/move past a bit of geometry - a technical problem.

    And it doesn't stop there. I told you a little story above about Dust 514. double that again for Remember me. i heard the words UE3 and i immediately thought of Enslaved. as it turns out, the two look almost identical on an animation level.

    you might say its unfair, but that doesn't mean the engine isn't the worst on offer atm. easy to use? yes, no arguments. widely accessible? the sdk was made public if i recall. does that entitle it to being a good engine? no, not at all.

    when the engine that runs the game basically telegraphs how the game will play out (even before seeing or playing the game) then its not a good engine.

    As i say, i don't fault the engine in any other department outside of its technical abilities. AI, Animation, Interaction (i think thats what it should be called?) are handled very poorly by UE.

    but as i say, moot point in light of the UE4 that seems to have rectified that. the visuals of the UE3, despite its age, are very good. im glad the more gameplay oriented systems got their just do's.

    I am actually very excited to see the UE4 in action. the tech demo's are great, but as the wall of text might allude, im holding something of an edge against it. i don't care that its the 'most used' or 'cheapest' i only care that games aren't limited by it (thus limiting my gameplay (remember me and enslaved reference above))

    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    So what might be more fair to say, is that poor visual design choice (which seem to occur regularly with UE3) have a great affect on the presentation of a game. Devs that use UE3 tend to fall back on what ever visual design it easiest with the engine. I agree environment wise, Bioshock looks fantastic, but the quality doesn't carry over to the characters, which could related to the animation systems you were saying are improved in UE4.

    Also, UE3 is rather old is it not? that was in development a bit before the last gen started and got small updates here and there. CryEngine and Frostbite were developed later and seem to have improved greatly over the course of the generation, with rather substantial upgrades. Though one thing I'm seeing is potential over use of lens flares from every single light source in the new engines. Tone it down guys :P
    all engines could do with turning that down! that and god rays! have you seen them in Forza? dem gods must be happy!
    Sig courtesy of the_jim

  4. #29
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    God rays should be rare to see in video games. It's weird seeing them cast behind characters, objects or buildings like there's some kind of fog. I literally like everything else about GTA V but that. Lol.
    Thanks to Kwes for the signature!

    "As long as there are dreamers who have the courage to pursue their dreams, the world will have heroes. And as long as there is a thirst to discover the unknown, there will be new stories to tell...and new adventures to be had."

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