[QUOTE="Firefox, post: 5195263]Well as he said he is afraid to click for fear of viruses which was really the case with the adverts in the past. But now some adverts are from legit sources (Turtle Beach is one example I think) but others seem sketchy.
Also is money based on clicks or just views?[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure it's based on clicks but the forum needs a certain amount of activity also I think.
Also is money based on clicks or just views?[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure it's based on clicks but the forum needs a certain amount of activity also I think.
[QUOTE="Jaeger, post: 5195259]Way to support the forum, kiddo.
PSU relies on advertising to keep going. If there aren't enough 'clicks' per calendar month, the forum loses another affiliate and, with that loss, a source of income. How do you think Seb used to pay for the hosting for this place? I'm aware we've just undergone a huge takeover and that the new owners must have a fair bit of money to buy us like that but the hosting is like £2000/month. The 'clicks' are the only thing bringing in some money to pay that £2000/month off.
If you hate/dislike the adverts so much, why not become a subscriber? You get rid of the adverts and you get a whole host of other features and benefits that normal members don't. I know it's kind of hypocritical coming from me as I'm not a subscriber but I used to be and, as soon as I get some money coming in, I'll no doubt subscribe again. It helps keep PSU going, you don't get the adverts and you get access to loads of stuff. And like Gal said, Mr. B is quite possibly reworking that list to include more benefits - there really is no reason not to subcribe.[/QUOTE]
Well you can click for me.
The ads lag my browser so I block them no way am I going to unblovk them, I think the reason they cause so much lag is they are all Flash based which also kills the PS3 browser which is another story, this forum is a mess ont he PS3 browser nothing fits right take the member list at the bottom of the main page instead of listing left to right it lists them top to bottom so makes the page about 4x as long as it needs to be. e.g
keefy
jeager
Firefox
j3ff3
PSU relies on advertising to keep going. If there aren't enough 'clicks' per calendar month, the forum loses another affiliate and, with that loss, a source of income. How do you think Seb used to pay for the hosting for this place? I'm aware we've just undergone a huge takeover and that the new owners must have a fair bit of money to buy us like that but the hosting is like £2000/month. The 'clicks' are the only thing bringing in some money to pay that £2000/month off.
If you hate/dislike the adverts so much, why not become a subscriber? You get rid of the adverts and you get a whole host of other features and benefits that normal members don't. I know it's kind of hypocritical coming from me as I'm not a subscriber but I used to be and, as soon as I get some money coming in, I'll no doubt subscribe again. It helps keep PSU going, you don't get the adverts and you get access to loads of stuff. And like Gal said, Mr. B is quite possibly reworking that list to include more benefits - there really is no reason not to subcribe.[/QUOTE]
Well you can click for me.
The ads lag my browser so I block them no way am I going to unblovk them, I think the reason they cause so much lag is they are all Flash based which also kills the PS3 browser which is another story, this forum is a mess ont he PS3 browser nothing fits right take the member list at the bottom of the main page instead of listing left to right it lists them top to bottom so makes the page about 4x as long as it needs to be. e.g
keefy
jeager
Firefox
j3ff3
[QUOTE="Dennis Dyack, post: 5195392]I skip through TV commercials when I record TV shows and change radio stations during commercials, so there is no doubt I block internet ads.[/QUOTE]
Here's the difference; TV and radio sell ads based on how many viewers/listeners they have. Websites sells ads based on unique visitors and how many clicks and ad gets.
Here's the difference; TV and radio sell ads based on how many viewers/listeners they have. Websites sells ads based on unique visitors and how many clicks and ad gets.
[QUOTE="*goo, post: 5193902]Surely you should only have to click an ad if you're interested in the product?
Out of interest, being a subscriber; what would I get as a benefit for paying?[/QUOTE]
ifyou like this site you should click on the ads anyways, i dont think you need to buy the product for PSU to make money.
Out of interest, being a subscriber; what would I get as a benefit for paying?[/QUOTE]
ifyou like this site you should click on the ads anyways, i dont think you need to buy the product for PSU to make money.
[QUOTE="efs5030, post: 5195956]ifyou like this site you should click on the ads anyways, i dont think you need to buy the product for PSU to make money.[/QUOTE]
I think you miss the point. None of the ads are products I'm interested in. Thus, I'm not going to waste my time clicking links to go to off-site locations and wasting bandwidth to throw a cent or two PSU's way.
Do I like the site? Yes, I do. Am I going to waste my own time (no matter how small) to earn them cash? No, I'm not. Will I subscribe? Perhaps, if what I'm getting is decent enough to warrant the asking price.
Rather than debate the advertising though, I'm more interested in discussing what value PSU can give that would justify anyone paying a subscription fee. By that, I mean ideas to make subscribing a much more enticing prospect.
I think you miss the point. None of the ads are products I'm interested in. Thus, I'm not going to waste my time clicking links to go to off-site locations and wasting bandwidth to throw a cent or two PSU's way.
Do I like the site? Yes, I do. Am I going to waste my own time (no matter how small) to earn them cash? No, I'm not. Will I subscribe? Perhaps, if what I'm getting is decent enough to warrant the asking price.
Rather than debate the advertising though, I'm more interested in discussing what value PSU can give that would justify anyone paying a subscription fee. By that, I mean ideas to make subscribing a much more enticing prospect.
Likes:
J3ff3
[QUOTE="keefy, post: 5195937]This forum is a mess ont he PS3 browser nothing fits right take the member list at the bottom of the main page instead of listing left to right it lists them top to bottom so makes the page about 4x as long as it needs to be.[/QUOTE]
It's not just PSU, it's all vBulletin forums.
It's not just PSU, it's all vBulletin forums.
[QUOTE="*goo, post: 5196009]I think you miss the point. None of the ads are products I'm interested in. Thus, I'm not going to waste my time clicking links to go to off-site locations and wasting bandwidth to throw a cent or two PSU's way.
Do I like the site? Yes, I do. Am I going to waste my own time (no matter how small) to earn them cash? No, I'm not. Will I subscribe? Perhaps, if what I'm getting is decent enough to warrant the asking price.
Rather than debate the advertising though, I'm more interested in discussing what value PSU can give that would justify anyone paying a subscription fee. By that, I mean ideas to make subscribing a much more enticing prospect.[/QUOTE]
this.
i like lots of things in life - Sony tvs for example - but i'm not just going to buy one because it might help Sony's bottom line. it has to be worth the price (much like buying a subscription here)
similarly, i'm not going to walk down a dark alley that looks suspicious in order to buy the tv - much like clicking an advert and going to a website i have absolutely no idea about.
at the end of the day this site has had virus issues in the past, and i wouldn't be surprised if it was due to the ads.
@squirrelbo1 - using firefox it doesn't let you access the top drop down menus (they fall behind the ticker).
Do I like the site? Yes, I do. Am I going to waste my own time (no matter how small) to earn them cash? No, I'm not. Will I subscribe? Perhaps, if what I'm getting is decent enough to warrant the asking price.
Rather than debate the advertising though, I'm more interested in discussing what value PSU can give that would justify anyone paying a subscription fee. By that, I mean ideas to make subscribing a much more enticing prospect.[/QUOTE]
this.
i like lots of things in life - Sony tvs for example - but i'm not just going to buy one because it might help Sony's bottom line. it has to be worth the price (much like buying a subscription here)
similarly, i'm not going to walk down a dark alley that looks suspicious in order to buy the tv - much like clicking an advert and going to a website i have absolutely no idea about.
at the end of the day this site has had virus issues in the past, and i wouldn't be surprised if it was due to the ads.
@squirrelbo1 - using firefox it doesn't let you access the top drop down menus (they fall behind the ticker).
[QUOTE="J3ff3, post: 5196182]
@squirrelbo1 - using firefox it doesn't let you access the top drop down menus (they fall behind the ticker).[/QUOTE]
really ? i had no problem when I was on my sisters laptop using firefox (when I wasnt signed in and no adblock)
[QUOTE="Firefox, post: 5196190]I use Firefox 4 Beta and the top drop down menus work just great.
[/QUOTE]
oo yeah forgot about that. *downloads*
@squirrelbo1 - using firefox it doesn't let you access the top drop down menus (they fall behind the ticker).[/QUOTE]
really ? i had no problem when I was on my sisters laptop using firefox (when I wasnt signed in and no adblock)
[QUOTE="Firefox, post: 5196190]I use Firefox 4 Beta and the top drop down menus work just great.
[/QUOTE]oo yeah forgot about that. *downloads*
[QUOTE="John25, post: 5196252]Im on Firefox and have no problems with the Drop down bars ?[/QUOTE]
yeah, they get hidden behind the news feed.
i've made a couple of sites and know it can be a pain in the arse to get everything working on every version of a browser though, so its not exactly the end of the world.
yeah, they get hidden behind the news feed.
i've made a couple of sites and know it can be a pain in the arse to get everything working on every version of a browser though, so its not exactly the end of the world.
[QUOTE="Tutankhamun, post: 5195955]Here's the difference; TV and radio sell ads based on how many viewers/listeners they have. Websites sells ads based on unique visitors and how many clicks and ad gets.[/QUOTE]
LOL. You totally missed my point. I skip and avoid tv and radio commercials and block internet ads. I NEVER click on ads so I might as well block them, right? I'm not gonna click ads just to generate income. Sorry.
LOL. You totally missed my point. I skip and avoid tv and radio commercials and block internet ads. I NEVER click on ads so I might as well block them, right? I'm not gonna click ads just to generate income. Sorry.
[QUOTE="Dennis Dyack, post: 5196324]LOL. You totally missed my point. I skip and avoid tv and radio commercials and block internet ads. I NEVER click on ads so I might as well block them, right? I'm not gonna click ads just to generate income. Sorry.[/QUOTE]
Actually, just blocking ads is making this forum lose income since Adblock don't hide ads but actually stops them from being downloaded (that's a good thing) the owners will have a harder time selling ads per page view since the number of people active on the forum won't match the number of times an ad is downloaded.
P.S I'm no fan of ads either believe you me I'm just playing the devils advocate here.
I think a site generally is in a dark place when they use Google ads like this forum does since those ads are so damn ugly. I can't stand them either. But I like this forum so I decided to subscribe and that way I'm not served ads either way.
Hopefully this new management team can find a better way to use ads to generate income.
Actually, just blocking ads is making this forum lose income since Adblock don't hide ads but actually stops them from being downloaded (that's a good thing) the owners will have a harder time selling ads per page view since the number of people active on the forum won't match the number of times an ad is downloaded.
P.S I'm no fan of ads either believe you me I'm just playing the devils advocate here.
I think a site generally is in a dark place when they use Google ads like this forum does since those ads are so damn ugly. I can't stand them either. But I like this forum so I decided to subscribe and that way I'm not served ads either way.
Hopefully this new management team can find a better way to use ads to generate income.
[QUOTE="squirrelbo1, post: 5196328]probably shouldn't of done that. lost all my tabs. I has a sad.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean? When I installed Firefox all my tabs form last session were back. As well as bookmarks. But I did have to do customization to make Firefox 4 exactly like Firefox 3. (Bookmark Toolbar, tabs on bottom, home buttom, etc..)
What do you mean? When I installed Firefox all my tabs form last session were back. As well as bookmarks. But I did have to do customization to make Firefox 4 exactly like Firefox 3. (Bookmark Toolbar, tabs on bottom, home buttom, etc..)
[QUOTE="Firefox, post: 5196335]What do you mean? When I installed Firefox all my tabs form last session were back. As well as bookmarks. But I did have to do customization to make Firefox 4 exactly like Firefox 3. (Bookmark Toolbar, tabs on bottom, home buttom, etc..)[/QUOTE]
yeah that what happened when i did the last beta (3.5 maybe) but this time it didnt open properly first time, and then second time just loaded up google. and bloody xmarks only had 37 tabs synced for some reason. o well. all my history is there and I can see whats missing. just add them again.
yeah that what happened when i did the last beta (3.5 maybe) but this time it didnt open properly first time, and then second time just loaded up google. and bloody xmarks only had 37 tabs synced for some reason. o well. all my history is there and I can see whats missing. just add them again.
[QUOTE="squirrelbo1, post: 5196351]thought that was iPhone/iPad only (maybe coming to android) ?
and becuase i do.[/QUOTE]
Nah, it's a web service. They do have an app for the iPhone and iPad but you don't need it. Check it out its free and awesome. Or as John Gruber put it; if you're not using Instapaper theres something wrong with you.
and becuase i do.[/QUOTE]
Nah, it's a web service. They do have an app for the iPhone and iPad but you don't need it. Check it out its free and awesome. Or as John Gruber put it; if you're not using Instapaper theres something wrong with you.
[QUOTE="Tutankhamun, post: 5196362]Nah, it's a web service. They do have an app for the iPhone and iPad but you don't need it. Check it out its free and awesome. Or as John Gruber put it; if you're not using Instapaper theres something wrong with you.[/QUOTE]
o alright, cheers mate
also firefox fixed itself. yeah I opened it this morning (old version, and everything was there) so i reinstalled 4 and its working like a dream. sometimes it amazes me at how it does stuff.
o alright, cheers mate
also firefox fixed itself. yeah I opened it this morning (old version, and everything was there) so i reinstalled 4 and its working like a dream. sometimes it amazes me at how it does stuff.
[QUOTE="*goo, post: 5196009]I think you miss the point. None of the ads are products I'm interested in. Thus, I'm not going to waste my time clicking links to go to off-site locations and wasting bandwidth to throw a cent or two PSU's way.
Do I like the site? Yes, I do. Am I going to waste my own time (no matter how small) to earn them cash? No, I'm not. Will I subscribe? Perhaps, if what I'm getting is decent enough to warrant the asking price.
Rather than debate the advertising though, I'm more interested in discussing what value PSU can give that would justify anyone paying a subscription fee. By that, I mean ideas to make subscribing a much more enticing prospect.[/QUOTE]
im not singling you out but there should be people who click the ads
Do I like the site? Yes, I do. Am I going to waste my own time (no matter how small) to earn them cash? No, I'm not. Will I subscribe? Perhaps, if what I'm getting is decent enough to warrant the asking price.
Rather than debate the advertising though, I'm more interested in discussing what value PSU can give that would justify anyone paying a subscription fee. By that, I mean ideas to make subscribing a much more enticing prospect.[/QUOTE]
im not singling you out but there should be people who click the ads
[QUOTE="Jaeger, post: 5195259]Way to support the forum, kiddo.
PSU relies on advertising to keep going. If there aren't enough 'clicks' per calendar month, the forum loses another affiliate and, with that loss, a source of income. How do you think Seb used to pay for the hosting for this place? I'm aware we've just undergone a huge takeover and that the new owners must have a fair bit of money to buy us like that but the hosting is like £2000/month. The 'clicks' are the only thing bringing in some money to pay that £2000/month off.
[/QUOTE]
This site is a business, not a charity.
It is up to the site owners to formulate a business strategy that works. If people choose to block/ignore their ads and they lose revenue from it, it is nothing more than an indication that their current business strategy is broken and they need to formulate a new one.
Haranguing members to click on ads solely to support the site is both disingenuous and fraudulent to the advertisers paying to display them.
No member has any obligation to ensure this site stays fiscally viable. That responsibility alone rests with the site owners.
If the site owners would like to depend on ad revenue, then it is their responsibility to place ads in such a way that members choose not only to not block them, but also find them appealing to their interests. If that isn't a viable option, then it is the site owners' responsibility to develop a new revenue stream.
The site owners are not children. They understood what they were getting into. If members are going to block ads it is important that the site owners understand this, and adjust their business model accordingly.
Encouraging members to throw a few pity clicks their way only accomplishes convincing the site owners to stay with a failing business model until it is financially untenable.
PSU relies on advertising to keep going. If there aren't enough 'clicks' per calendar month, the forum loses another affiliate and, with that loss, a source of income. How do you think Seb used to pay for the hosting for this place? I'm aware we've just undergone a huge takeover and that the new owners must have a fair bit of money to buy us like that but the hosting is like £2000/month. The 'clicks' are the only thing bringing in some money to pay that £2000/month off.
[/QUOTE]
This site is a business, not a charity.
It is up to the site owners to formulate a business strategy that works. If people choose to block/ignore their ads and they lose revenue from it, it is nothing more than an indication that their current business strategy is broken and they need to formulate a new one.
Haranguing members to click on ads solely to support the site is both disingenuous and fraudulent to the advertisers paying to display them.
No member has any obligation to ensure this site stays fiscally viable. That responsibility alone rests with the site owners.
If the site owners would like to depend on ad revenue, then it is their responsibility to place ads in such a way that members choose not only to not block them, but also find them appealing to their interests. If that isn't a viable option, then it is the site owners' responsibility to develop a new revenue stream.
The site owners are not children. They understood what they were getting into. If members are going to block ads it is important that the site owners understand this, and adjust their business model accordingly.
Encouraging members to throw a few pity clicks their way only accomplishes convincing the site owners to stay with a failing business model until it is financially untenable.
[QUOTE="F34R, post: 5193956]Put it this way, when things ARE fixed, I'll resub. Until then, if it runs out, it runs out. While there is a hint of things to come, it's a long way off from being a fixed forum. There are so many things wrong, not only with the actual forum, but the members too. That needs to be fixed as much as the broken forums.[/QUOTE]
But how do you fix the members?
But how do you fix the members?
[QUOTE="F34R, post: 5193956]Put it this way, when things ARE fixed, I'll resub. Until then, if it runs out, it runs out. While there is a hint of things to come, it's a long way off from being a fixed forum. There are so many things wrong, not only with the actual forum, but the members too. That needs to be fixed as much as the broken forums.[/QUOTE]
I have been away for quite sometime. I was one of the original subscribers but as the current forum status stands, I will not subscribe again for these reasons. There is just something different now about the userbase/forum feel. Can't quite put my finger on what feels different.... It almost seems like the standards have been lowered on regular users.
I have been away for quite sometime. I was one of the original subscribers but as the current forum status stands, I will not subscribe again for these reasons. There is just something different now about the userbase/forum feel. Can't quite put my finger on what feels different.... It almost seems like the standards have been lowered on regular users.
[QUOTE="GhostFox61, post: 5207381]This site is a business, not a charity.
It is up to the site owners to formulate a business strategy that works. If people choose to block/ignore their ads and they lose revenue from it, it is nothing more than an indication that their current business strategy is broken and they need to formulate a new one.
Haranguing members to click on ads solely to support the site is both disingenuous and fraudulent to the advertisers paying to display them.
No member has any obligation to ensure this site stays fiscally viable. That responsibility alone rests with the site owners.
If the site owners would like to depend on ad revenue, then it is their responsibility to place ads in such a way that members choose not only to not block them, but also find them appealing to their interests. If that isn't a viable option, then it is the site owners' responsibility to develop a new revenue stream.
The site owners are not children. They understood what they were getting into. If members are going to block ads it is important that the site owners understand this, and adjust their business model accordingly.
Encouraging members to throw a few pity clicks their way only accomplishes convincing the site owners to stay with a failing business model until it is financially untenable.[/QUOTE]
Totally wish that I could have dived into this conversation much earlier, but hey I'm here now.
This might be a long post, so I'll apologize for that in advance. Let me just answer a few things in the above post, because he brings up good points.
1. Yes you're right. We need to have a business strategy that works, and it needs to appeal to the users. Ads are a vital part of this business strategy, and its up to us to make them less intrusive and appealing to the users. I urge people to not block ads, but will never demand it. Perhaps the fair trade we could make is that please make sure to give us feedback, and we'll try to address issues. Every once in a while just turn off the ad blocker to see if we've fixed it, and if not then there's absolutely nothing we can do to stop you.
Hopefully as well, we'll develop things that aren't banner-ad based. There's lots of ways for companies to advertise, such as contests, which fit outside of the display ad mould. We'll work on a couple of these ideas as well, to help alleviate the load on banner ads.
2. We don't force people to click at all. The only thing I say with banner ads, is remember that if you're interested in a product, check it out! Advertisers advertise to get people information on their products. I know that if I'm in the market for a Flatscreen TV, and I see an ad for a shop in my local area that sells them... I'll give 'er a click and check it out. Thats all we ask for.
The other point that was put up earlier, is yes we do ensure the quality of advertisements displayed on this site. We don't check each and every single ad that comes up, but what we do is use only top-quality ad networks to fill unsold inventory. These ad networks all do not allow fradulent ads to be displayed, and therefore we can guarantee the quality of our ads. I completely agree that the quality of ads is of the utmost importance, and will forevermore be a focus from here on forwards.
3. Of course the responsibility to ensure fiscal viability rests with us, but I wouldn't say its entirely true that the members aren't responsible at all. What we need is a relationship between the admins and the members that is a positive and symbiotic one. Sure its not up to you to make sure that we're working as a business, but you also shouldn't be going out of your way to work against us. Find the ads intrusive? Well fine use an ad blocker... which is technically against us. But if you do that, please get involved with feedback threads so we can work towards improving the site in a way that will either entice you to subscribe, or fix the ad display problems. Its every users responsibility to either work with us, or tell us what we're doing wrong. Simply complaining, sticking up an ad blocker and saying "fix your own damn site" won't help us move forwards as a community.
4. I think I already addressed this above, but yeah... we need to work with the community to make things work. Ads are important though, so there needs to be some level of tolerance towards it. Meeting in the middle with a compromise is key... advertising is an excellent way to support a site like this, and the lion's share of revenue would come from there. We'll work to optimize this to the ends of the earth, if you're willing to eventually look at some form of ads. However, if you're completely unwilling, then our only option is to put up a pay service. Subscriptions work just dandy for those who don't want to see ads, and absolutely we can work to make this more enticing. The perfect model with a forum like this is people who want to use it for free see ads, people who don't like ads subscribe. Simple relationship.
5. Already addressed - We are looking at absolutely everything you guys say. Give us some time though, there's been about a billion suggestions since we took over a few weeks ago. Lots of historical frustrations to iron out.
6. Not true in the slightest I'm afraid. If users click on ads that they're interested in, its great. There is nothing broken with the advertising-supported business model of the internet... as a matter of fact its flourishing right now. Whats antiquated is the model of Magazines and print media. That is falling to pieces. Ads on the internet are alive and well, because fact of the matter, not that many people use ad blockers.
_________________
Ok thats my answer to that, now let me go into a bit more detail about how advertising on the internet works:
Primarily with a site like PSU, advertising is sold by CPM (Cost Per Thousand Impressions) meaning that for every 1,000 times an ad displays, said advertiser pays us say $3. This number fluctuates drastically Dependant on the site, and dependent on how ads perform. When the advertiser signs a package, they would say "Ok we'll buy 100,000 ads at a $3 CPM between X and Y dates for $300."
Some ads are sold by CPC (Cost per Click). In this model you're paid $X / click received. Some of the ads running on PSU are like this, but those are more of the google ads, and ad networks we use to populate our unsold inventory. The more clicks the better in this scenario. HOWEVER - fraudulent clicks are the worst thing ever, and the detection systems for this is so incredibly advanced, that nobody dares mess with it. This is why we say check out an ad if you're interested, but if you're just clicking for the sake of clicking - please don't.
The 3rd factor that is important is CTR (Click Through Rate). Now CTR is pretty interesting, because with CPC it measures how much you get paid, but with CPM it measures the performance of the specific ad unit. Many forums have a CTR of ~0.04%, while content-based pages have more like ~0.5%. Some advertisers who have really cool creative might get way higher than that as well, if their creative is really targeted and compelling.
So the interesting fact comes when you have an advertiser that is paying based on CPM, but measuring performance based on CTR. If that same advertiser above had a really high CTR on their campaign, the following year they might say "Wow! Lets buy 1,000,000 impressions, because those were so effective." Whereas if their CTR was super low, they'd say "Well that was low... I don't believe in the branding that I got from the ads, and I'm just going to advertise with Google so I only pay for the clicks I get."
In the end, the single most effective thing is to have advertisers that are highly targeted at the website users, and to come up with compelling creative that engages users. Advertisers will make their creative better if they get more clicks, and measure performance based on it. There's lots of people that argue that this is silly (including me) but thats the way the industry has gone. Bosses like to see spreadsheets of numbers, and high clicks means good from all they know. I mean Google is a gigantic company based solely on selling clicks to people... so I guess there are some bigger companies using that too.
The whole ad network thing is a different issue.
You see, since PSU sells on a CPM basis, we might have say 8 million ad impressions for sale in a month. If on that particular month, we only sell 5 million to people directly advertising on the site, we have 3 million left over that would just go to waste. There's companies out there called ad networks that will pay you for those remaining impressions, and fill them with their own ads. There are WIDE ranges of quality of ad networks out there, which is why on some sites you see so much porn / malware / gambling. We use the highest quality ones, who buy our unsold inventory, and let them bid the highest number. Those range from CPM to CPC to CPA (Cost per action)... and we just have to optimize them.
Now, all that advertising talk out of the way, the most true factor here is that we want to work with the community. Above and beyond all else in the world of optimizing inventory, if the community is really happy, then they can engage with advertisers. That is where we can do custom activations which will garner a much higher amount of interaction. So all in - you guys are the most important thing around here. When you read the news articles, comment on them, enter contests, engage with whats happening it creates a truly valuable message to advertisers, and a truly fun place for people to hang out. As long as at some point, we make compromises between what the community wants and what is good for advertising, we'll have a fruitful and long future together.
So - people really freaking hate that 160x600 ad eh? Anyone have a better idea of where it could be located?
It is up to the site owners to formulate a business strategy that works. If people choose to block/ignore their ads and they lose revenue from it, it is nothing more than an indication that their current business strategy is broken and they need to formulate a new one.
Haranguing members to click on ads solely to support the site is both disingenuous and fraudulent to the advertisers paying to display them.
No member has any obligation to ensure this site stays fiscally viable. That responsibility alone rests with the site owners.
If the site owners would like to depend on ad revenue, then it is their responsibility to place ads in such a way that members choose not only to not block them, but also find them appealing to their interests. If that isn't a viable option, then it is the site owners' responsibility to develop a new revenue stream.
The site owners are not children. They understood what they were getting into. If members are going to block ads it is important that the site owners understand this, and adjust their business model accordingly.
Encouraging members to throw a few pity clicks their way only accomplishes convincing the site owners to stay with a failing business model until it is financially untenable.[/QUOTE]
Totally wish that I could have dived into this conversation much earlier, but hey I'm here now.
This might be a long post, so I'll apologize for that in advance. Let me just answer a few things in the above post, because he brings up good points.
1. Yes you're right. We need to have a business strategy that works, and it needs to appeal to the users. Ads are a vital part of this business strategy, and its up to us to make them less intrusive and appealing to the users. I urge people to not block ads, but will never demand it. Perhaps the fair trade we could make is that please make sure to give us feedback, and we'll try to address issues. Every once in a while just turn off the ad blocker to see if we've fixed it, and if not then there's absolutely nothing we can do to stop you.
Hopefully as well, we'll develop things that aren't banner-ad based. There's lots of ways for companies to advertise, such as contests, which fit outside of the display ad mould. We'll work on a couple of these ideas as well, to help alleviate the load on banner ads.
2. We don't force people to click at all. The only thing I say with banner ads, is remember that if you're interested in a product, check it out! Advertisers advertise to get people information on their products. I know that if I'm in the market for a Flatscreen TV, and I see an ad for a shop in my local area that sells them... I'll give 'er a click and check it out. Thats all we ask for.
The other point that was put up earlier, is yes we do ensure the quality of advertisements displayed on this site. We don't check each and every single ad that comes up, but what we do is use only top-quality ad networks to fill unsold inventory. These ad networks all do not allow fradulent ads to be displayed, and therefore we can guarantee the quality of our ads. I completely agree that the quality of ads is of the utmost importance, and will forevermore be a focus from here on forwards.
3. Of course the responsibility to ensure fiscal viability rests with us, but I wouldn't say its entirely true that the members aren't responsible at all. What we need is a relationship between the admins and the members that is a positive and symbiotic one. Sure its not up to you to make sure that we're working as a business, but you also shouldn't be going out of your way to work against us. Find the ads intrusive? Well fine use an ad blocker... which is technically against us. But if you do that, please get involved with feedback threads so we can work towards improving the site in a way that will either entice you to subscribe, or fix the ad display problems. Its every users responsibility to either work with us, or tell us what we're doing wrong. Simply complaining, sticking up an ad blocker and saying "fix your own damn site" won't help us move forwards as a community.
4. I think I already addressed this above, but yeah... we need to work with the community to make things work. Ads are important though, so there needs to be some level of tolerance towards it. Meeting in the middle with a compromise is key... advertising is an excellent way to support a site like this, and the lion's share of revenue would come from there. We'll work to optimize this to the ends of the earth, if you're willing to eventually look at some form of ads. However, if you're completely unwilling, then our only option is to put up a pay service. Subscriptions work just dandy for those who don't want to see ads, and absolutely we can work to make this more enticing. The perfect model with a forum like this is people who want to use it for free see ads, people who don't like ads subscribe. Simple relationship.
5. Already addressed - We are looking at absolutely everything you guys say. Give us some time though, there's been about a billion suggestions since we took over a few weeks ago. Lots of historical frustrations to iron out.
6. Not true in the slightest I'm afraid. If users click on ads that they're interested in, its great. There is nothing broken with the advertising-supported business model of the internet... as a matter of fact its flourishing right now. Whats antiquated is the model of Magazines and print media. That is falling to pieces. Ads on the internet are alive and well, because fact of the matter, not that many people use ad blockers.
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Ok thats my answer to that, now let me go into a bit more detail about how advertising on the internet works:
Primarily with a site like PSU, advertising is sold by CPM (Cost Per Thousand Impressions) meaning that for every 1,000 times an ad displays, said advertiser pays us say $3. This number fluctuates drastically Dependant on the site, and dependent on how ads perform. When the advertiser signs a package, they would say "Ok we'll buy 100,000 ads at a $3 CPM between X and Y dates for $300."
Some ads are sold by CPC (Cost per Click). In this model you're paid $X / click received. Some of the ads running on PSU are like this, but those are more of the google ads, and ad networks we use to populate our unsold inventory. The more clicks the better in this scenario. HOWEVER - fraudulent clicks are the worst thing ever, and the detection systems for this is so incredibly advanced, that nobody dares mess with it. This is why we say check out an ad if you're interested, but if you're just clicking for the sake of clicking - please don't.
The 3rd factor that is important is CTR (Click Through Rate). Now CTR is pretty interesting, because with CPC it measures how much you get paid, but with CPM it measures the performance of the specific ad unit. Many forums have a CTR of ~0.04%, while content-based pages have more like ~0.5%. Some advertisers who have really cool creative might get way higher than that as well, if their creative is really targeted and compelling.
So the interesting fact comes when you have an advertiser that is paying based on CPM, but measuring performance based on CTR. If that same advertiser above had a really high CTR on their campaign, the following year they might say "Wow! Lets buy 1,000,000 impressions, because those were so effective." Whereas if their CTR was super low, they'd say "Well that was low... I don't believe in the branding that I got from the ads, and I'm just going to advertise with Google so I only pay for the clicks I get."
In the end, the single most effective thing is to have advertisers that are highly targeted at the website users, and to come up with compelling creative that engages users. Advertisers will make their creative better if they get more clicks, and measure performance based on it. There's lots of people that argue that this is silly (including me) but thats the way the industry has gone. Bosses like to see spreadsheets of numbers, and high clicks means good from all they know. I mean Google is a gigantic company based solely on selling clicks to people... so I guess there are some bigger companies using that too.
The whole ad network thing is a different issue.
You see, since PSU sells on a CPM basis, we might have say 8 million ad impressions for sale in a month. If on that particular month, we only sell 5 million to people directly advertising on the site, we have 3 million left over that would just go to waste. There's companies out there called ad networks that will pay you for those remaining impressions, and fill them with their own ads. There are WIDE ranges of quality of ad networks out there, which is why on some sites you see so much porn / malware / gambling. We use the highest quality ones, who buy our unsold inventory, and let them bid the highest number. Those range from CPM to CPC to CPA (Cost per action)... and we just have to optimize them.
Now, all that advertising talk out of the way, the most true factor here is that we want to work with the community. Above and beyond all else in the world of optimizing inventory, if the community is really happy, then they can engage with advertisers. That is where we can do custom activations which will garner a much higher amount of interaction. So all in - you guys are the most important thing around here. When you read the news articles, comment on them, enter contests, engage with whats happening it creates a truly valuable message to advertisers, and a truly fun place for people to hang out. As long as at some point, we make compromises between what the community wants and what is good for advertising, we'll have a fruitful and long future together.
So - people really freaking hate that 160x600 ad eh? Anyone have a better idea of where it could be located?
I think PSU should use its presence to get in with some of the gaming houses and publishers. Exclusive reports, screenshots and videos would be nice but probably a bit much to ask for (but if you did get them then they could be restricted to Subscribers only). Maybe they could even wrangle some beta keys which they could give away to subscribers - that's the kind of stuff I'd pay for. Custom Titles and no-ads are not worth my money. Supporting the site - yes - but I would prefer to do that through a donation button where I get to set the value I deem appropriate. Any donation is better than no donation which is what they are getting now.
[QUOTE="Mr.Bishop, post: 5208745]
So - people really freaking hate that 160x600 ad eh? Anyone have a better idea of where it could be located?[/QUOTE]
my problem with it, is that i pay so i dont get ads etc and even though there is no add i still get the **** off white bar to the side, and it messes with the centering of the forum. its just anoying.
So - people really freaking hate that 160x600 ad eh? Anyone have a better idea of where it could be located?[/QUOTE]
my problem with it, is that i pay so i dont get ads etc and even though there is no add i still get the **** off white bar to the side, and it messes with the centering of the forum. its just anoying.