Does anyone know why neither system has 802.11ac?

DontKnowMe

Forum Elder
Oct 19, 2006
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#1
I know the standard is still pretty new but I wonder why it didn't make it to these consoles.
 
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Brandon

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Nov 8, 2004
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#2
Unless you have Google Fiber, it probably won't affect you much. I think they should have included it as well, but I'm guessing price had to do with it. There's also the Ethernet if you have a need for speed. Ethernet is better for online gaming anyway.
 
Oct 18, 2006
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#3
I think is is because not a lot of people have that right now, but if 802.11ac starts to catch on more they can always add it into a revision on future PS4 systems.
 

JDizzleNO1

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May 15, 2011
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#4
[QUOTE="PBM, post: 6230376]Unless you have Google Fiber, it probably won't affect you much. I think they should have included it as well, but I'm guessing price had to do with it. There's also the Ethernet if you have a need for speed. Ethernet is better for online gaming anyway.[/QUOTE]

unless you're playing COD, which then you get hammered by artificial lag to "level" the playing field lol

but that should change with COD and dedicated servers, finally

/derailment
 

John Willaford

Dedicated Member
Feb 28, 2013
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#6
5Ghz N doesn't penetrate walls very well, 2.4Ghz is best indoors, 5Ghz N is best outdoors.

Ideally, I'd like to ask why HomePLUG standards haven't been integrated yet?
HomePLUG game system and HomePLUG router, done, guaranteed to at least equal your Broadband speed, most likely far exceed it on your LAN.

My guess is Remote Play will work best on an Ethernet connection to lessen the burden on the WiFi stack during RP.
 

Ezekiel

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Apr 29, 2006
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#8
[QUOTE="DontKnowMe, post: 6230365]I know the standard is still pretty new but I wonder why it didn't make it to these consoles.[/QUOTE]

From what I've gathered, the standard isn't finalized quite yet and isn't expected to until sometime in the spring of 2014. While there are devices out on the market that do have it now i.e., Samsung Galaxy S4, Note 3 and HTC One, as well as commercial grade routers, it's expected that you won't even utilize the full bandwidth potential until the ISPs get their act together and up the bandwidth accordingly. (I'm looking at you AT&T, Verizon, Comcast and Time Warner.)
 

DontKnowMe

Forum Elder
Oct 19, 2006
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#9
[QUOTE="D3seeker, post: 6230677]It's bad enough the PS4 doesn't support 5gHz N (does it even support N? I can't recall what we discussed in that threat a while back)
I guess I could understand this though[/QUOTE]

It supports 802.11a/b/g/n. I don't if it is 5ghz.
 

Brandon

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Nov 8, 2004
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#10
[QUOTE="DontKnowMe, post: 6230747]It supports 802.11a/b/g/n. I don't if it is 5ghz.[/QUOTE]
No, it supports b/g/n, not a.
 

MATRIX 2

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Jul 29, 2005
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#11
[QUOTE="DontKnowMe, post: 6230365]I know the standard is still pretty new but I wonder why it didn't make it to these consoles.[/QUOTE]

Bingo. No need to adopt new/unfinished standards.

It will likely get it, along with usb 3.1 and hdmi 2.0 when the slim version is released.
 

Brandon

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Nov 8, 2004
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#12
I'm not so sure there will even be a slim version, considering the PS4 is smaller than the current PS3 slim... but we'll see, I guess. I'm sure they'll include it down the road.
 

MATRIX 2

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Jul 29, 2005
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#13
[QUOTE="PBM, post: 6230770]I'm not so sure there will even be a slim version, considering the PS4 is smaller than the current PS3 slim... but we'll see, I guess. I'm sure they'll include it down the road.[/QUOTE]

Considering how small the ps2 slim and redesigned psone were, they can always make changes.
 

Christopher

Community and Technical Manager
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Jun 1, 2007
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#14
[QUOTE="PBM, post: 6230770]I'm not so sure there will even be a slim version, considering the PS4 is smaller than the current PS3 slim... but we'll see, I guess. I'm sure they'll include it down the road.[/QUOTE]

Presenting.......the PS4 Slim!



now that's pretty damn small
 

John Willaford

Dedicated Member
Feb 28, 2013
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#15
[QUOTE="keefy, post: 6230718]Remoteplay with a wire sounds stoopid.[/QUOTE]

Cute, you know darn well I meant with Ethernet as the broadband connection to lessen the burden on the WiFi chip.
Touche' Kozmonaut.

PS: I AINT GETTING INTO NO AIRLPLANE HANNIBAL!
 

Brandon

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Nov 8, 2004
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#16
[QUOTE="MATRIX 2, post: 6230780]Considering how small the ps2 slim and redesigned psone were, they can always make changes.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but there's a lot more stuff in the PS3/PS4 than the PS2/PS1. But technology never ceases to amaze me.


[QUOTE="Christopher, post: 6230784]Presenting.......the PS4 Slim!



now that's pretty damn small[/QUOTE]
That would get lost quite easily. :-0
 

daLa

Veteran
May 22, 2006
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#17
ac is not standard yet, most mobile/pc/laptop/hybrids don't come with embedded ac yet but they offer it as an extra upgrade and my guess is it won't be standard soon so no need to future proof it and elevate the cost even if it's not by too much.
 

MATRIX 2

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Jul 29, 2005
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#18
[QUOTE="PBM, post: 6230788]Yeah, but there's a lot more stuff in the PS3/PS4 than the PS2/PS1. But technology never ceases to amaze me.



That would get lost quite easily. :-0[/QUOTE]

See the ps3 original design compared to the super slim.
 

Brandon

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Nov 8, 2004
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#19
[QUOTE="MATRIX 2, post: 6230807]See the ps3 original design compared to the super slim.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I know that... but Sony used all of their manufacturing experience of the last 3 generations to make the PS4 the way it is. There was a lot of brand new tech in the PS3... a big ass Blu-ray drive, etc... that made it as huge as it was. And the PS4 is using very modern components that aren't very big to begin with... such a slim Blu-ray drive, an APU, etc. If it does get smaller... I can't see them doing very much. Heating would become an issue. A better comparison would be PS3 slim to the PS4... not the PS3 fat to the PS4... the reduction won't be that dramatic.
 

MATRIX 2

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Jul 29, 2005
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#20
[QUOTE="PBM, post: 6230817]Yes, I know that... but Sony used all of their manufacturing experience of the last 3 generations to make the PS4 the way it is. There was a lot of brand new tech in the PS3... a big ass Blu-ray drive, etc... that made it as huge as it was. And the PS4 is using very modern components that aren't very big to begin with... such a slim Blu-ray drive, an APU, etc. If it does get smaller... I can't see them doing very much. Heating would become an issue. A better comparison would be PS3 slim to the PS4... not the PS3 fat to the PS4... the reduction won't be that dramatic.[/QUOTE]

Just look at laptops. We have computers with full power quad core cpu's and intermediate graphics cards that are .75 inches thick or less. Just a few years ago, you would need a laptop ~twice as thick to properly accommodate that hardware. Improvements are made on a constant basis.

Current PS4 chips are manufactures on a 28 nanometer process, imagine what could be done with a 14 or even 10 nanometer fabrication process in 3-4 years.
 

TAZ427

Elite Guru
Nov 29, 2007
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#21
[QUOTE="Morganator, post: 6230742]From what I've gathered, the standard isn't finalized quite yet and isn't expected to until sometime in the spring of 2014. While there are devices out on the market that do have it now i.e., Samsung Galaxy S4, Note 3 and HTC One, as well as commercial grade routers, it's expected that you won't even utilize the full bandwidth potential until the ISPs get their act together and up the bandwidth accordingly. (I'm looking at you AT&T, Verizon, Comcast and Time Warner.)[/QUOTE]

Glad I read through this, as this is what I was going to comment on. It's not a ratified standard as of yet, and while there are 802.11ac draft routers out they may/may not support the full standard and not many (outside of the a few of the higher end Smartphone/Tablets) are implementing it today.

To be honest for them it's really just a selling point, and not something they'd get much of a benefit from over 802.11N itself. Unless as mentioned people have some REALLY high end fiber connection and no bottle necks between them and the servers they're accessing (which is usually the case with my 25Mbps connection.)

You're not going to have any Lag improvement for this as was implied by some.

Any if you really want this you can either go direct Ethernet or after getting your 802.11ac router, get a 802.11ac AP and set it up as a Gateway to your equipment.
 

Brandon

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Nov 8, 2004
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#22
[QUOTE="MATRIX 2, post: 6230877]Just look at laptops. We have computers with full power quad core cpu's and intermediate graphics cards that are .75 inches thick or less. Just a few years ago, you would need a laptop ~twice as thick to properly accommodate that hardware. Improvements are made on a constant basis.

Current PS4 chips are manufactures on a 28 nanometer process, imagine what could be done with a 14 or even 10 nanometer fabrication process in 3-4 years.[/QUOTE]
That's what I'm hoping for. It's just hard to imagine right now, but technology never ceases to amaze.
 

John Willaford

Dedicated Member
Feb 28, 2013
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#23
[QUOTE="MATRIX 2, post: 6230877]Just look at laptops. We have computers with full power quad core cpu's and intermediate graphics cards that are .75 inches thick or less. Just a few years ago, you would need a laptop ~twice as thick to properly accommodate that hardware. Improvements are made on a constant basis.

Current PS4 chips are manufactures on a 28 nanometer process, imagine what could be done with a 14 or even 10 nanometer fabrication process in 3-4 years.[/QUOTE]

Even .22 is a tremendous jump.
I had thought SONY might have gone to .22 with their design but it appears both are .28 and Microsoft's issues are the huge block of ESRAM transistors on the chip they had to tweak for cooling (one assumes that block of 1.4B transistors is the most active given it's importance).

[QUOTE="keefy, post: 6230718]Remoteplay with a wire sounds stoopid.[/QUOTE]

Check your inbox!
 
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John Willaford

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Feb 28, 2013
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#24
[QUOTE="PBM, post: 6230788]Yeah, but there's a lot more stuff in the PS3/PS4 than the PS2/PS1. But technology never ceases to amaze me.



That would get lost quite easily. :-0[/QUOTE]

What amazes me is my entertainment cabinet top shelf, under the TV, has room for me to put my PS3 60GB ontop of my PS4 and still not be wedged in using a rubber mallet! Well done SONY.
I have 4 generations of gaming in that small of a footprint!
My Retron 5 will have to go on the other side!
 

chriharr

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Jun 9, 2011
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#26
Answers are: too darn expensive less than 1% of the world has compatible equipment. And .........it wouldn't be necessary as it would do absolutely nothing for gaming this generation.... Go wired.... It's a better experience.
 

Ezekiel

Forum Sage
Apr 29, 2006
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#27
[QUOTE="TAZ427, post: 6230882]Glad I read through this, as this is what I was going to comment on. It's not a ratified standard as of yet, and while there are 802.11ac draft routers out they may/may not support the full standard and not many (outside of the a few of the higher end Smartphone/Tablets) are implementing it today.

To be honest for them it's really just a selling point, and not something they'd get much of a benefit from over 802.11N itself. Unless as mentioned people have some REALLY high end fiber connection and no bottle necks between them and the servers they're accessing (which is usually the case with my 25Mbps connection.)

You're not going to have any Lag improvement for this as was implied by some.

Any if you really want this you can either go direct Ethernet or after getting your 802.11ac router, get a 802.11ac AP and set it up as a Gateway to your equipment.[/QUOTE]

Great post and it does a much better job at explaining what we're both trying to get across than my post does. In short, it's just not necessary for devices to include the standard as yet. The infrastructure backbone just isn't there yet and will likely take much longer before we'll see the benefits.
 

Brandon

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Nov 8, 2004
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#28
[QUOTE="TAZ427, post: 6230882]Glad I read through this, as this is what I was going to comment on. It's not a ratified standard as of yet, and while there are 802.11ac draft routers out they may/may not support the full standard and not many (outside of the a few of the higher end Smartphone/Tablets) are implementing it today.

To be honest for them it's really just a selling point, and not something they'd get much of a benefit from over 802.11N itself. Unless as mentioned people have some REALLY high end fiber connection and no bottle necks between them and the servers they're accessing (which is usually the case with my 25Mbps connection.)

You're not going to have any Lag improvement for this as was implied by some.

Any if you really want this you can either go direct Ethernet or after getting your 802.11ac router, get a 802.11ac AP and set it up as a Gateway to your equipment.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much. I've never done any online gaming with wireless. It's always been a wired connection. Every millisecond counts. You lag, you die.