*Exclusive* Playstation 5: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStation.

Vyse

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#2
So it will be using a new CPU that releases this summer, ray-tracing support for AMD is also new (Nvidia were the ones who introduced it on a consumer level), and not to mention the 8k resolution support. That said, the PS5 definitely isn't launching this year and these first details more or less confirm that it will retail for at least $500.

They have to be launching it late 2020. What better way to celebrate 25 years of PlayStation than to bring a brand new console to consumers?

I also read that shortly after this story broke, Microsoft revealed their E3 schedule, which says to me a new chapter in their console war has begun - who knows if the Xbox Two will offer similar or better features?
 
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Fijiandoce

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#3
Yeah, Lisa Su pretty much confirmed as well:
Super excited to expand our partnership with @Sony on their next-generation @PlayStation console powered by a custom chip with @AMDRyzen Zen2 and @Radeon Navi architecture!
I think we can pretty much expect it to look similar to the desktop counter part (probs in a smaller package though)

^GPU would take the empty space highlighted in pink.

Looks like we are actually getting a decent console this time around, and not something gimped in the knee like the jagaur was to the current systems (Ryzen, even at 1GHz, is many generations ahead of Jaguar! To put it in context, you can run windows fine with 4 Ryzen cores which isn't something you can say about Jaguar.).

Kinda curious, since now Lisa Su has flat out stated Zen 2 is the architecture, how significant SMT is for games, on a dedicated gaming machine. I've always understood it helped best where, principally, you had layers of abstraction, and you weren't sure what sort of code you'd be executing next.
I'd have thought, on console, if you wanted to use the int and float units (for example) in tandem you could have coded for that directly... since you knew the hardware you were running on.

But regardless, should see some really good stuff next gen!
 
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#4
I can't even imagine what Sony games will look like considering the things they're able to pull off on the base PS4. The hard drive news is very interesting too. I think the PS5 is beyond what anyone could have guessed
 
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Fijiandoce

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#5
So it will be using a new CPU that releases this summer, ray-tracing support for AMD is also new (Nvidia were the ones who introduced it on a consumer level), and not to mention the 8k resolution support. That said, the PS5 definitely isn't launching this year and these first details more or less confirm that it will retail for at least $500.

They have to be launching it late 2020. What better way to celebrate 25 years of PlayStation than to bring a brand new console to consumers?

I also read that shortly after this story broke, Microsoft revealed their E3 schedule, which says to me a new chapter in their console war has begun - who knows if the Xbox Two will offer similar or better features?
I'd wager the Nextbox will be pretty much identical. They are still going to AMD for their parts, and AMD don't have anything other than Zen 2, and Navi (that is new anyways). I don't see them settling for anything less than the latest and greatest from AMD as well.

As for ray tracing... technically, even the PS4 can do it (since GCN) but it is computationally expensive without the dedicated hardware.

That's a comparison for an implementation done on actual PS4 hardware. You derive similar results, but obviously lacking in resolution compared to the way Rays sample the scene.

The Cryengine ray tracing tech demo which is platform agnostic was probably done with software, then accelerated on the GPU. So this may be where the "support" nomenclature comes from. Ideally, hardware trumps software, and the use of "support" makes it sound like it would be used sparingly; like you would subsurface scattering for example. So high chance it'll be a feature of select titles that can bare the cost of the render time.

I can't even imagine what Sony games will look like considering the things they're able to pull off on the base PS4. The hard drive news is very interesting too. I think the PS5 is beyond what anyone could have guessed
I mean, pretty sure people guessed the Ryzen cores since that's literally all AMD have to sell atm :geek:
 

Vyse

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#6
Digital Foundry says the storage media upgrade to a solid state drive will supposedly be a revelation. Bandwidth that exceeds the best that the PC has to offer.
 

Fijiandoce

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#7
Zen has the potential for a crap tonne of PCI-E lanes (whether this is incorporated into the console design remains to be seen though). NVME uses 4 lanes on PC's, can't see a reason Sony couldn't design around 8 lanes (Literally overkill tho!). Technically, you theoretically exceed what PC's can do. But whether you realistically exceed it is another thing entirely.

As seen with PC's, going from SSD's maxing SATA3 to PCI-E 4x isn't as big as going from mechanical HDD not maxing SATA 3 to SSD maxing SATA 3.

So i think the 'revelation' might be more pricing than performance as NVME drives are expensive as balls.

To touch on what i said about the Ray tracing though - and this stems from the "3D audio" part - there is a chance Sony will have some dedicated circuitry that can help accelerate some stages of Ray tracing - in addition to brute force compute (AMD has always had a compute advantage).
They started this stuff with TLoU iirc, where they'd cast rays from audio sources and test how occluded the sound was from the player - so sound through a wall would sound muffled. If you had the circuitry on the chip, it wouldn't inherently go wasted, as it does on RTX where no raytracing means a large section of the chip is idle. If all you are doing is testing for intersections, you could have this circuity pull double duty (and accelerate one of the slowest parts of Ray tracing) for the renderer.

Interesting to see what the GPU is going to look like!

On a different note however, i don't know if this is the way Sony intend to reveal this stuff going forward. But i wonder if they might have jumped the gun if the intent is some sort of larger appeal to audiences?
Maybe, looking at what AMD had on offer, the notion that the PS5 and Nextbox are going to be nigh on identical made them try to go this route to appear as the more 'premium' option to people outside gaming; Gamers are going to know whats up whether they go to E3, or not, so there's no real loss there.
It's all well and fine for Samsung, Huawei, Apple etc. to get magazine/press time, but they're phones, everyone and their mother has one, and/or uses one.
 
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Fijiandoce

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#10
I don't get how this is going to support 8K. Some kind of uber-checkerboarding?
Probably just covering bases.

Anything one of them doesn't say, the other is going to be all over.

I wonder how Sony let this guy gave out all these informations regarding the PS5 hadware?
I think he's taken it from the Wired Article... just provided it in a neat bullet point form.
 

Vyse

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#11
I can't even imagine what Sony games will look like considering the things they're able to pull off on the base PS4. The hard drive news is very interesting too. I think the PS5 is beyond what anyone could have guessed
Just look at what they're capable of rendering on the PS4 Pro:







If this is what they can pull off with Jaguar, and Ryzen is supposed to be a huge leap, next-gen is going to be off the chain!
 
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#12
Just look at what they're capable of rendering on the PS4 Pro:







If this is what they can pull off with Jaguar, and Ryzen is supposed to be a huge leap, next-gen is going to be off the chain!
Exactly. The PS5 is going to be powerful enough to show a big difference between it and the ps4. The momentum Sony has right now will play a huge role going into next gen.
 

Vyse

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#16
I read a rumor that said Sony has been working to lock down GTA VI as a timed exclusive for the PS5. I don't think there's any legitimacy to it though, because the person says GTA VI will take place in Vice City and Liberty City instead of Vice City and South America. Not that Sony doesn't already have a lot of momentum going into next-gen but this could give them a huge lead over Microsoft and Xbox Two, wouldn't it?
 

Fijiandoce

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#17
I think that rumours a bit reaching imho. GTA is literally printing money for Take-Two.

I know it's not 50/50, but since there's only two companies i'm gunna massage it with a hammer to say it's 50/50, but Take Two are looking at losing half of that money making potential just to stand behind one of those two companies.

The trend for publishers these days is to milk the bejesus out of their IP and make all the monies.
 
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Vyse

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#18
Yeah, scratch that. I saw the pastebin post before someone else posted about it on resetera and the general consensus is that anyone could have guessed most of the first details announced by Cerny. And thinking about it some more, remasters of upcoming PS4 games don't make any sense, considering the PS5 is backwards-compatible.

I'm just wondering what is something Sony could announce that would really drive sales of the PS5 at launch? Microsoft has Xbox Game Pass and that's a great deal for their consumers. Currently, PS Now is twice the monthly charge and you're only able to download specific titles.

SIE Japan Studio trademarked something called RaySpace in December 2017. That could be a new IP but speculation is that it's related to an old arcade shmup.
 
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Jun 4, 2007
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#19
The launch period isn't going to be too big of an issue as far as sales go. The last 2 generations has proven that much. PS3 was selling out despite the high price tag and the xbox one was selling out despite the high price tag. Plus there's going to be cross gen exclusives along with true ps5 exclusives. I think that will be enough for people.

Imagine Sony and Nintendo giving up millions of sales for $1 trials. They simply don't need to. MS does despite launching all their exclusives on the PC. Gamepass is great for consumers but lets not act like it's a gamechanger. Gamers aren't subscribing at full price by they millions. You want proof? Gamepass has been on sale for $1 all year long. There's no need for the $1 deal on something that's supposed to be successful. They're desperate for numbers so that they have something to brag about at E3. The xbox only sold 6 million consoles for the entire year of 2018. These services are cool but they're only the sprinkles on top of the cake.
 
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Fijiandoce

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#20
I'm just wondering what is something Sony could announce that would really drive sales of the PS5 at launch? Microsoft has Xbox Game Pass and that's a great deal for their consumers. Currently, PS Now is twice the monthly charge and you're only able to download specific titles.

SIE Japan Studio trademarked something called RaySpace in December 2017. That could be a new IP but speculation is that it's related to an old arcade shmup.
One of the strengths of Nintendo tends to be its IP. Be it Pokemon, Mario, Zelda etc. they manage to keep themselves in the game. Where Sony and MS chase an ever increasing bar, Nintendo just does games at an affordable price point.

Arguably, Sony has the stronger first party line-up when compared to their direct competition. Spiderman, Horizon, Uncharted 4, and GOW all passed 9 million in sales each. While GT (the entire GT series) is over 80 million. So they have something they can lean into quite heavily. They did it with the PS3 and, by the generations end, they outsold the 360.
But on that note, we know Naughty Dog has two teams, and while most probably moved to TLoU, nothings been heard of what the second team are working on (so there's always that).

However principally, cost is going to be one of the biggest factors. The PS4 was a coup from the start. More powerful than it's nearest competitor, but also quite a bit cheaper, and Sony added the cherry on top with the aforementioned first party lineup. It also helped that MS were busy shooting themselves in the foot every chance they got (I still remember Mattrick's "Our offline console to compete with the PS4 is the 360 [paraphrased]" statement... i mean, a 2x4 could have given a better answer :/).

EDIT:
Also, if anyone is interested. Navi is the last stop on AMD's roadmap for GCN. After Navi, AMD will bring an entirely new Architecture to market that does not use GCN in ~2021. If there is going to be a mid-gen rehash, they'll likely use the brand new architecture (We could get ray tracing up the wazoo! ;)).
 
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Vyse

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#21
What are your thoughts on this, @Fijiandoce?


Sony's PS5 teaser has been and gone and while we know a lot about its specs, what we don't have are any specific numbers: how much memory does it have? What about CPU/GPU clocks and the graphics configuration? Maybe - just maybe - some information is out there, and it comes from the unlikeliest of sources...
 
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Fijiandoce

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#22
I dunno, i'd have to just take it with a few truck fulls of salt, as Richard said.

Engineering codes can be changed if the company felt so inclined. But it looks pretty good though. If the console is coming out next year, you'd be getting around to finalising your design now, and chipping away at the packages efficiency.

On that note, the Ryzen core does seem a bit odd. This isn't the piddly little Jaguars. These are actual power hungry cores by comparison. Using Zen (1) as a comparison: @3GHz you were over 1v through the core; the 15w SKU's will go up to 90c+ when you fully load the cores, and start throttling. Keep in mind that the rumour does say PS5 would have 8 cores, the numbers above are for 4 Ryzen cores only.

But who knows. There's no real details out on Zen 2, so i'm all guess work. AMD's R&D, and the move to 7nm, could have brought the TDP down to a point where they can go big on the GPU, and keep the Ryzen cores happy as well.

I'd like for that to be true though. I'd have been happy with 8 Zen cores @ 1GHz. Anything higher is sweet music! :)
 

robvandam111

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#23
You guys are always the best source of finding other sources. i'm excited to hear that. I'm really hoping the backwards compatibilities it extends as much further as possible
 

Fijiandoce

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#24
Rumours going around suggesting PS5 will launch at the same price point as PS4. But Mark Cerny made a comment that it would launch at an "appealing price" for what we got.... you can't really see the guys body language through the text, but that could be either a good thing (PS4 again), or a very bad thing (Microsoft TV thing).

Old industry philosophy was to have next to no margin on the console anyways, and make the money up with the games. Since you now have services walking alongside the games, there should be no reason to do what PS4/XB1 did launching, more or less, at a profit.
 

VayMasters86

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#25
Rumours going around suggesting PS5 will launch at the same price point as PS4. But Mark Cerny made a comment that it would launch at an "appealing price" for what we got.... you can't really see the guys body language through the text, but that could be either a good thing (PS4 again), or a very bad thing (Microsoft TV thing).

Old industry philosophy was to have next to no margin on the console anyways, and make the money up with the games. Since you now have services walking alongside the games, there should be no reason to do what PS4/XB1 did launching, more or less, at a profit.
I think he said "appealing price" right now, not because they don't know the price (though they might not and just don't want to over promise), but because it's such a powerful marketing point if it's a good price.

If they say it's $400 right now, the hype will have died down by the time they show off the PS5, if they wait until a few months before release (e3 2019 for example), they'll be able to ride the positivity through the holidays to boost sales.

Not to mention, they'll be showing off all their cards to MS. I'm actually surprised that we know this much already.

I can't imagine they'll want to try to release at the $600 price point again; and $500 would be somewhat neutral.
 

AsterPhoenix

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#26
Yeah its backwards compatible with more than just PS4 games i'll be interested but I will take the wait and see approach.

Like with PS4 I waited 2 years i'd likely do the same with PS5.
 

FinalxxSin

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#27
Yeah its backwards compatible with more than just PS4 games i'll be interested but I will take the wait and see approach.

Like with PS4 I waited 2 years i'd likely do the same with PS5.
Can't go wrong with waiting especially if there ends up being a 2.0 version that provides better performance.
 
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#29
Just make it powerful, give me a bare bones lightening fast dashboard and great games and I will buy it day one.....as always.