Gamestop's answer to the online pass

Inzane2050

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Jun 27, 2011
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#31
[QUOTE="*goo, post: 5694024]Which studios closed their doors due to the used game market? On Call of Duty, I purchased my first copy of Modern Warfare used. You can pick up second hand copies without difficulty.

I actually traded them both (MW & MW2) in recently along with a bunch of other games and purchased Dark Souls and Ico/Shadow of the Colossus HD with the funds. Did I help kill developers or help them flourish? What a conundrum![/QUOTE]

I never said there was anything wrong with trading in or buying used. But doing so with new releases is where the problem lies. Also, please don't take what I say out of context; you know i am not talking about used copies of two-year-old games, MW/MW2.

Game developers make 90% of their profit in the first month or two. Why buy $50-55 used when for $60 you can have new and guarantee and that developers will have that much more money to keep the good games coming. Like I've said, nothing wrong with the secondhand market, but we should try more to buy new if we can, seeing as how we all know how difficult financially this generation has been on developers.
 

sainraja

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Jun 16, 2006
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#32
Developers haven't been the only one who have suffered financially. But, then again, gaming isn't a necessity but it does help people take their minds off of worldly issues for good reasons or bad...
 
S

Soldier 95B

Guest
#33
Well, this is good news. I just hope that money is getting into the developers hands not just GS.
 
Feb 11, 2008
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#34
[QUOTE="Inzane2050, post: 5694430]I never said there was anything wrong with trading in or buying used. But doing so with new releases is where the problem lies. Also, please don't take what I say out of context; you know i am not talking about used copies of two-year-old games, MW/MW2.

Game developers make 90% of their profit in the first month or two. Why buy $50-55 used when for $60 you can have new and guarantee and that developers will have that much more money to keep the good games coming. Like I've said, nothing wrong with the secondhand market, but we should try more to buy new if we can, seeing as how we all know how difficult financially this generation has been on developers.[/QUOTE]
So you're backing out of what you said earlier about studios closing due to second hand sales....

The games that have financial difficulty haven't produced good enough games, or enough games, or were over budget and didn't make enough in return, etc. I don't think you're going to find a single legitimate source siting second hand sales as a reason for studio closures. I don't have any obligation to buy new, even though I do buy all my games new. I honestly couldn't give two shits about how difficult this generation has been financially for these developers. They provide entertainment for me, nothing else. If I want to enjoy it, I'll buy it. I don't go into anything showing an ounce of concern for the people that made the product.
 

Inzane2050

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Jun 27, 2011
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#35
[QUOTE="F34R, post: 5694448]So you're backing out of what you said earlier about studios closing due to second hand sales....

The games that have financial difficulty haven't produced good enough games, or enough games, or were over budget and didn't make enough in return, etc
. I don't think you're going to find a single legitimate source siting second hand sales as a reason for studio closures. I don't have any obligation to buy new, even though I do buy all my games new. I honestly couldn't give two shits about how difficult this generation has been financially for these developers. They provide entertainment for me, nothing else. If I want to enjoy it, I'll buy it. I don't go into anything showing an ounce of concern for the people that made the product.[/QUOTE]

How did I "back out" of anything? A few game studios have indeed closed out this generation.

In regards to the first bold, that is complete nonsense and you know that. And I never said you had an obligate; just that if you want good games to keep coming, you should. But seeing how you don't seem to care one bit whether or not these developers of whom deliver your product go under, then of course you would keep buying used games for $55. Whether or not you feel you are too "poor" to afford that extra five bucks doesn't change the fact that used games hurts developer sales. It's just obvious.
 
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hood

Elite Member
Dec 2, 2005
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#36
[QUOTE="Inzane2050, post: 5694430]I never said there was anything wrong with trading in or buying used. But doing so with new releases is where the problem lies. Also, please don't take what I say out of context; you know i am not talking about used copies of two-year-old games, MW/MW2.

Game developers make 90% of their profit in the first month or two. Why buy $50-55 used when for $60 you can have new and guarantee and that developers will have that much more money to keep the good games coming. Like I've said, nothing wrong with the secondhand market, but we should try more to buy new if we can, seeing as how we all know how difficult financially this generation has been on developers.[/QUOTE]

If GS is buying games from developers then selling them to make a profit doesn't that mean that the devs are still getting paid. Also if GS is buying the codes for the dlc from the devs for used games aren't the devs still making money. As time goes on the used games will lose value and GS wont make as much money off the used sales anymore. Eventually there will be a common ground between used game sales and new.

For example GS buys the games new for $35 and sells them for $60 you trade in your new game for $10 GS then sells your used game for $40 someone buys that game and they receive free dlc that cost GS $5. GS sells 5 new games at $60 they make $125 from it and if they sell 5 used games for $40 they make $125 all together $250. The devs make $175 for 5 new games being sold and $25 for 5 used games being sold $200. What GS will eventually have to do is offer you less for your trade because devs will up the price on GS since the game is selling well. When the sales die down the GS recuperates the money lost during peak sales. Devs charge less and gamestop has to lower the prices on new games and raise the price on used. So now the used game sales compensate for the money lost when the game was at its highest selling point. GS ends up making that money back staying in business and the dev still gets some profit. In regards to devs staying in business it depends on the quality of their product they fail because the games they make aren't good not because of gamestop.

Now I would frown when someone claims to be in favor of a certain game and goes ahead and gets it used just because its cheaper but that's just something neither devs or gamestop can control. Unless devs just stop selling their games to gamestop just to deal with wal-mart target or kmart that way the only way used games would end up in gs is if someone bought it from somewhere else and brought it in. If that were to happen gs would probably fail but devs won't do it. Places like walmart or target probably charge too much for advertising for small companies so they have to get their hands dirty with gamestop.
 
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Inzane2050

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Jun 27, 2011
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#37
^^

This particular stunt Gamestop is pulling is actually hurting both their own sales and developers', and very intentional. The whole point of this stunt is to make the developers like EA and Ubisoft take a bigger hit than what Gamestop would take to try and force them to drop these online passes. These online game servers cost money to operate, and there is nothing wrong with developers demanding to get some form of payment, big or small, to maintain these servers that you play on. But Gamestop is against it.
 

*goo

Elite Guru
Aug 2, 2008
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#38
I'm not sure how you've become convinced that companies like Gamestop are trying to hurt publishers but I'd certainly like to read some of what you are that verifies this to be the case.

Just like the developer and publisher, Gamestop (and other retailers) are in the business to turn profit. If they're not turning enough profit, they'll look for other avenues to increase their margin. The used market happens to provide that boost for them.

As for running costs. Please... They run the servers whilst it's 'cost effective' to do so. Once that stops, the server goes down. And I don't just mean cost effective in the sense of how much to maintain, it also includes cost to the business if you switch off services and lose custom for other games as a result (negative publicity). You'll find some sort of caveat in nearly every game that uses online servers that will tell you the publisher reserves the right to stop offering a service if they want to. And they don't have to give you a reason why.

Plus, these passes are infecting single player games too. Rage is a prime example.

Ultimately, let's not lose site of the fact that a market exists because there are consumers who want/need it. If you're arguing against used sales as a consumer, you're actually arguing for your amount of 'choice' to be restricted. As a fellow consumer, I certainly want more choice and more competition. This whole scam isn't being done because anyone is losing money. It's to make more money. There's a massive difference there. And they want the money out of you and I.

Gamestop are actually doing us as consumers a massive service and should be thanked. You should be supporting freedom of choice, not restriction of choice because of some misplaced loyalty to a brand that doesn't care about you, only the money in your wallet.
 
Likes: $Greatness$

sainraja

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#39
That's a good post and you raise good points but I wouldn't say GameStop is doing us any favors here. Their pricing of used games was the number one reason I stayed away from buying used games or trading games there and now I never buy used.

They charge close to the price of a new game for a used one and they don't really give you a fair price for the game you're trading in (in my opinion.)

I am not exactly for online passes but I am not completely against them. I guess I don't really care -- I am concerned with the content and since I buy new, I get it anyway. I suppose....I just don't feel that strongly towards the issue to take action for or against...
 
S

Soldier 95B

Guest
#40
Up until last night, I was a HUGE supporter of the online pass. Now I am second guessing myself....and merely for selfish reasons.

I bought Battlefield 3 on my 360 yesterday. I wanted to play online of course when I got home....no problem. Put the 25 digit code in to play online, done deal. Play away and enjoy life. I am done playing for the night. My son comes up to me and asks if he can play it. I was like, FO SHO. So he takes the game, goes upstairs and throws it in his Xbox and goes to play online and is prompted for a key. DOH...I totally forgot about putting the key in already.

That does not make me a happy camper. Him and I take turns playing Black Ops for example on our own respective console, no problem. However, THIS is a problem.

They need to address this. How, I do not know. If they could some how maybe tie the key in with say, a family Xbox Live subscription so that family members at home could buy the Xbox Live Family pack and attach that key to it.
 

*goo

Elite Guru
Aug 2, 2008
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#41
[QUOTE="sainraja, post: 5696863]That's a good post and you raise good points but I wouldn't say GameStop is doing us any favors here. Their pricing of used games was the number one reason I stayed away from buying used games or trading games there and now I never buy used.

They charge close to the price of a new game for a used one and they don't really give you a fair price for the game you're trading in (in my opinion.)

I am not exactly for online passes but I am not completely against them. I guess I don't really care -- I am concerned with the content and since I buy new, I get it anyway. I suppose....I just don't feel that strongly towards the issue to take action for or against...[/QUOTE]

Personally, I wouldn't buy a game that was only a few pounds shy of the new retail (there'd have to be a bigger financial incentive) but I absolutely prefer the fact that choice is there. Other consumers are swayed by saving a few pounds here and there - and they absolutely should have the freedom to be able to make that choice.

Soldier, that's a great example of how as a consumer; you're getting the short end of the stick. The product and how it operates has changed and now you'll have to pay more money to get that same experience you're used to.
 
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sainraja

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#42
I don't like the above either. We shouldn't have to enter a code per account.

EDIT:

Yeah, you're right that it's still a choice....but either way it seems to be the way gaming is headed..
 
Feb 11, 2008
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#43
[QUOTE="Soldier 95B, post: 5696864]Up until last night, I was a HUGE supporter of the online pass. Now I am second guessing myself....and merely for selfish reasons.

I bought Battlefield 3 on my 360 yesterday. I wanted to play online of course when I got home....no problem. Put the 25 digit code in to play online, done deal. Play away and enjoy life. I am done playing for the night. My son comes up to me and asks if he can play it. I was like, FO SHO. So he takes the game, goes upstairs and throws it in his Xbox and goes to play online and is prompted for a key. DOH...I totally forgot about putting the key in already.

That does not make me a happy camper. Him and I take turns playing Black Ops for example on our own respective console, no problem. However, THIS is a problem.

They need to address this. How, I do not know. If they could some how maybe tie the key in with say, a family Xbox Live subscription so that family members at home could buy the Xbox Live Family pack and attach that key to it.[/QUOTE]
This is one of the main reasons I don't like the online pass scam. It works on a single console only, unless you recover the account it was activated with onto the other console.
 

REEEPR

Dedicated Member
Jan 26, 2008
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#44
So GS will sell you a game for $55 + a free online pass code? Screw new man. If i were to buy 5 games used that's 25 bones i saved. Take it from an elder. The devs are getting paid. I personally see a bait & switch coming. GS gets your trust, then BAM. Welcome to "We only sell new" formerly GS bought out by a conglomerate of the major companies. Nah, i was just bullshittin man.
 

Inzane2050

Super Elite
Jun 27, 2011
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#45
I don't really care if online passes affect people who buy used. It's just an incentive to just buy new and and pay the devs. Solider's dilemma seems real tho. They should definitely make the key work for Xbox family subscription, etc.
 

$Greatness$

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Sep 4, 2009
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#46
[QUOTE="Soldier 95B, post: 5696864]Up until last night, I was a HUGE supporter of the online pass. Now I am second guessing myself....and merely for selfish reasons.

I bought Battlefield 3 on my 360 yesterday. I wanted to play online of course when I got home....no problem. Put the 25 digit code in to play online, done deal. Play away and enjoy life. I am done playing for the night. My son comes up to me and asks if he can play it. I was like, FO SHO. So he takes the game, goes upstairs and throws it in his Xbox and goes to play online and is prompted for a key. DOH...I totally forgot about putting the key in already.

That does not make me a happy camper. Him and I take turns playing Black Ops for example on our own respective console, no problem. However, THIS is a problem.

They need to address this. How, I do not know. If they could some how maybe tie the key in with say, a family Xbox Live subscription so that family members at home could buy the Xbox Live Family pack and attach that key to it.[/QUOTE]

That's the point I've been trying to get you to see. It still burns those of us who buy games new, too. The key shouldn't exist at all. Gives more of a headache than anything and it sucks. Sad part a lot of people still don't have internet access and they're getting a raw deal as well since some SP games have this shitty pass as well. (Batman I be lookin' at chu)

---Before site went stupid I wrote----

And if people didn't know, the value of most games went down as well. For instance, BF3 used on the Lamestop website is $47.99 when it used to be $55 used. The online pass has devalued the game even more. On one hand its good for those who don't play MP. I'm not going to lie, though, I want to spit on Peter Moore. I used to respect him until he brought upon us that damn pass.
 
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Sep 1, 2006
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#49
[QUOTE="Inzane2050, post: 5694430]I never said there was anything wrong with trading in or buying used. But doing so with new releases is where the problem lies. Also, please don't take what I say out of context; you know i am not talking about used copies of two-year-old games, MW/MW2.

Game developers make 90% of their profit in the first month or two. Why buy $50-55 used when for $60 you can have new and guarantee and that developers will have that much more money to keep the good games coming. Like I've said, nothing wrong with the secondhand market, but we should try more to buy new if we can, seeing as how we all know how difficult financially this generation has been on developers.[/QUOTE]

Im pretty sure the problem doesnt lie with New Release Titles being sold Used (5 bucks... no one cares about 5 bucks... in truth its a fact that given an opportunity the majority of people WILL buy new because 5$ isnt a big deal and everyone wants the best (the best being New in this case)

The problem (its not REALLY a problem imo) that everyone is making a big deal about is when the games ARE 1 year old games... i personally never buy a used game unless its like 30$ or less and even then its usually games that arent that great and dont warrant a 60$ day one purchase.

in the end... i dont see anyone closing down because of this. New games, as long as theyre good... will always be purchased en mass at full price. Sub Par games will be purchased en mass at used price... If anyone is to blame for poor sales new OR used... its the devs for putting out garbage games.
 
Feb 11, 2008
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South Carolina
#50
[QUOTE="Inzane2050, post: 5697232]I don't really care if online passes affect people who buy used. It's just an incentive to just buy new and and pay the devs. Solider's dilemma seems real tho. They should definitely make the key work for Xbox family subscription, etc.[/QUOTE]
The devs already got paid...
 

Ariakace

Dedicated Member
Mar 12, 2008
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#51
Once again this doesnt affect me, as i mwont be trading any of my games in until PS4 is released, in which case ill turn in games ill never play again. all my old baseball games ill get 1 or 2 dollars for etc etc. but only when gamestop has get X% more for trading in X amount of games torwards a purchase of, but now lets say since BF3 came out the other day, and someone was to go trade it in, would they get 9.99 less for the game in terms of store credit since thats the cost of the code?

Also i may have skipped over a few comments, but the quote from the OP stated that gamers buying used copies of batman would get catwoman codes free, i havent heard anything about gamestop giving out free online passes to multi-player games unless i missed somethhing.
 
S

Soldier 95B

Guest
#52
[QUOTE="$Greatness$, post: 5697307]That's the point I've been trying to get you to see. It still burns those of us who buy games new, too. The key shouldn't exist at all. Gives more of a headache than anything and it sucks. Sad part a lot of people still don't have internet access and they're getting a raw deal as well since some SP games have this shitty pass as well. (Batman I be lookin' at chu)[/QUOTE]

I guess if my son wants to play our BF3 bad enough, he will just have use 800 MS points and get the pass. Sucks, but it's cheaper than buying the game new again :(
 

*goo

Elite Guru
Aug 2, 2008
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#53
That's exactly the problem though. Should you have to spend more money to be able to play the game in your own home on different consoles? So instead of paying $60, you have to pay $70? Just so some shareholder can get an extra 5c per share in their dividend?

The whole thing is nonsense but the more consumers toe the line, the more they'll push. Really starting to look like DRM will be a big part of next gen...
 

Ghost

Administrator
Staff member
Aug 12, 2009
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#54
I don't care, OP system doesn't affect me in the slightest. The 2nd hand games I wanted came long before the OP arrived. I will roll with the punches unscathed. The fact is that people moan and groan about OP and such but generally still buy the games. There are a VERY few who will vote with their wallet but in the end it wont make one bit of a difference. Wallet voting wont change the OP system, the gaming community has to be more vocal about it. Until something major happens OP is here to stay so just grab your ankles and go to a happy place or dont get the game.
 

sainraja

Forum Sage
Jun 16, 2006
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#55
[QUOTE="*goo, post: 5698030]That's exactly the problem though. Should you have to spend more money to be able to play the game in your own home on different consoles? So instead of paying $60, you have to pay $70? Just so some shareholder can get an extra 5c per share in their dividend?

The whole thing is nonsense but the more consumers toe the line, the more they'll push. Really starting to look like DRM will be a big part of next gen...[/QUOTE]

You shouldn't have to spend extra money on a new copy you just bought for a different account within your family. If it didn't restrict you on a different account as long as you could verify that you are the owner of the game, it would have been completely okay with me.
 

Inzane2050

Super Elite
Jun 27, 2011
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#56
DRM was implemented bcuz of excess piracy.
OP was implemented bcuz of excees in used game sales on new releases.

Not that used games are bad, but developers want to secure more profits as this generation has been very financially difficult on them
 
S

Soldier 95B

Guest
#57
As I said before, I support the IDEA to get the developers cash for used game sales. But I don't support it when it is implemented wrong.
 
Nov 4, 2011
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#59
I have nothing important to add but I need 5 posts before I can make a topic to ask me question so: I hated that I bought NHL 12 for like 12 bucks cheaper used, then had to buy the online pass for 10 bucks, so I saved $2 on a used game
 
Aug 27, 2011
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#60
One of the few times where my OCD is actually a good thing.

I absolutely want new copies of games. I know I pay more but I want it new and unopened.

So, I don't care that much about the passes. I just wish they were 210 letters/numbers long some times