HP to Spin Off PC dep. [WebOS dead-ish]

Tutankhamun

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#1
Bloomberg said:
HP to Buy Software Company, Spin Off PCs

Hewlett-Packard Co. (HPQ), the world’s largest computer maker, is planning to announce the acquisition of Autonomy Corp. for about $10 billion and the spinoff of its personal-computer business, said people familiar with the company’s plans.

The company may announce its plans as early as today, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the plans aren’t yet public. Hewlett-Packard, based in Palo Alto, California, is scheduled to report quarterly earnings today after markets close.
Bloomberg

WOW! Can you imagine HP getting out of the PC business? For us that have followed the industry for a long time this is unimaginable.

EDIT:

Here's the press release from HP where they confirm the rumors and that they'll kill WebOS and therefor their smartphone and tablet products: http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...Discussions-Autonomy-Corporation-plc-Business

Just insane what this industry is going trough.
 
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Oct 23, 2007
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#2
Bloomberg[/URL]

WOW! Can you imagine HP getting out of the PC business? For us that have followed the industry for a long time this is unimaginable.

EDIT:

Here's the press release from HP where they confirm the rumors and that they'll kill WebOS and therefor their smartphone and tablet products: http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...Discussions-Autonomy-Corporation-plc-Business

Just insane what this industry is going trough.
That's pretty crazy, I wonder what the problem is.
 

Tutankhamun

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#3
[QUOTE="weskurtz81, post: 5637186]That's pretty crazy, I wonder what the problem is.[/QUOTE]

They are just no margins in the PC business, HP is selling most computers by market share!

For WebOS, the Touchpad was on market 49 days before it was chopped. The platform didn't grow but I personally think HP jumped the gun on WebOS it has potential.
 
Oct 23, 2007
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#4
[QUOTE="Tutankhamun, post: 5637198]They are just no margins in the PC business, HP is selling most computers by market share!

For WebOS, the Touchpad was on market 49 days before it was chopped. The platform didn't grow but I personally think HP jumped the gun on WebOS it has potential.[/QUOTE]

Sure there is, if the business wasn't sustainable, PC's wouldn't exist. You have to remember, 30% margins like Apple makes are the exception... not the norm. There must be something more to HP spinning off the PC unit, they make SOLID products that are generally more affordable than any of the competition.
 

Tutankhamun

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#5
[QUOTE="weskurtz81, post: 5637216]Sure there is, if the business wasn't sustainable, PC's wouldn't exist. You have to remember, 30% margins like Apple makes are the exception... not the norm. There must be something more to HP spinning off the PC unit, they make SOLID products that are generally more affordable than any of the competition.[/QUOTE]

If you look at the revenue for PC manufactures they make very little money selling hardware - if PC sales continue to go down, as they have for some time sans Macs, HP might not be the only one to do this. It just shows charging an amount of money for a product where you can sustain your revenue is the right move i.e Apple's model is correct.

I bet the combination of PC sales going down with decreased revenue in most of the industry and the shift in small business to not only employ services from companies like HP lead to this decision.
 
Oct 23, 2007
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[QUOTE="Tutankhamun, post: 5637219]If you look at the revenue for PC manufactures they make very little money selling hardware - if PC sales continue to go down, as they have for some time sans Macs, HP might not be the only one to do this. It just shows charging an amount of money for a product where you can sustain your revenue is the right move i.e Apple's model is correct.[/quote]

Aren't PC sales falling faster than Mac market share is increasing? As far as Apple's business model, I think it's a little more complicated than that. They are able to charge a premium because you can only get a Mac from them, there is no choice. For a PC, you can get any number of different PC's, there is a ton of direct competition, the PC market simply CAN'T be like the Apple market. If Apple had other companies making computers than ran OSX, they would also experience issues like the PC market has.

[QUOTE="Tutankhamun, post: 5637219]I bet the combination of PC sales going down with decreased revenue in most of the industry and the shift in small business to not only employ services from companies like HP lead to this decision.[/QUOTE]

Confused, you mean they are employing services from companies other than HP?
 

Tutankhamun

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#7
[QUOTE="weskurtz81, post: 5637225]Aren't PC sales falling faster than Mac market share is increasing? As far as Apple's business model, I think it's a little more complicated than that. They are able to charge a premium because you can only get a Mac from them, there is no choice. For a PC, you can get any number of different PC's, there is a ton of direct competition, the PC market simply CAN'T be like the Apple market. If Apple had other companies making computers than ran OSX, they would also experience issues like the PC market has.[/quote]

Don't have all the numbers here but Macs are the only PC's that is growing.

To me it's simple, don't put your trust in other companies - HP played after Microsofts drum and the rest of the PC (Apple excluded) industry. When they lowered prices so HP need to do to stay relevant, margins be damned. Clearly, integrated platforms are the future, even Google thinks so now - Apple had it right 1984. Looking bad for MS.

Charge enough money for your product so you can sustain your business, that's what I take from this.

If HP had gone for their own OS earlier they might not have been in this situation today.

[QUOTE="weskurtz81, post: 5637225]Confused, you mean they are employing services from companies other than HP?[/QUOTE]

Among other things, it used to be in business and schools they had PC's often Dell or HP. Support issues were handled by those companies etc. Nowadays, schools and business wants iPads.
 
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TrUe GaMeR

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[QUOTE="Tutankhamun, post: 5637230]Clearly, integrated platforms are the future, even Google thinks so now - Apple had it right 1984. Looking bad for MS. [/QUOTE]

I fail to see how it's looking bad for MS. It's obvious by what they have been saying and what they're finally doing that MS knows integrated is the future. Now why do I say finally? Because for the past decade MS wasn't allowed to integrate their products. DOJ. For some reason none of the tech sites mentioned anything when the shackles finally came off MS back in May 11'. They acted like the whole decade where everyone made gains were all at MS own incompetence.

What has MS shown since May? Win 8, WinP 7, xbox <----- All share the same Metro UI with tiles. Office 365, etc. All their products are integrated with each other or are in the process of being integrated. Skype will be built into WP, skype is coming to xbox. Windows Phone and kinect will even be talking to each other based off demos. Even the code they created developer environment can be used across Win 7, xbox, and WP7. Bing is a core part of WP7, going to be an important part of xbox this fall.

Notice that this integration started this year and really started in May after the decade long shackles were released. MS is the company that has all the cards in place they just have to bring them together which they're in the process of doing.


On Topic:
I owned a pre for a full 2yrs. Longest phone yrs ever. The OS is brilliant but the developers support along with the hardware was never there. Sad to see it go but I will not miss it since I've been in the WP camp.
 

Tutankhamun

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#9
[QUOTE="TrUe GaMeR, post: 5637608]I fail to see how it's looking bad for MS. It's obvious by what they have been saying and what they're finally doing that MS knows integrated is the future. Now why do I say finally? Because for the past decade MS wasn't allowed to integrate their products. DOJ. For some reason none of the tech sites mentioned anything when the shackles finally came off MS back in May 11'. They acted like the whole decade where everyone made gains were all at MS own incompetence.

What has MS shown since May? Win 8, WinP 7, xbox <----- All share the same Metro UI with tiles. Office 365, etc. All their products are integrated with each other or are in the process of being integrated. Skype will be built into WP, skype is coming to xbox. Windows Phone and kinect will even be talking to each other based off demos. Even the code they created developer environment can be used across Win 7, xbox, and WP7. Bing is a core part of WP7, going to be an important part of xbox this fall.

Notice that this integration started this year and really started in May after the decade long shackles were released. MS is the company that has all the cards in place they just have to bring them together which they're in the process of doing.[/quote]

They are still licensing their operating systems which, judging by recent market news, doesn't seem to work right now. Maybe Microsoft will buy HP's PC department.
 

MATRIX 2

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#10
[QUOTE="Tutankhamun, post: 5637618]They are still licensing their operating systems which, judging by recent market news, doesn't seem to work right now. Maybe Microsoft will buy HP's PC department.[/QUOTE]

Microsoft isn't a hardware company.
 

Tutankhamun

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#11
[QUOTE="MATRIX 2, post: 5637832]Microsoft isn't a hardware company.[/QUOTE]

Yet.

-------


An interesting article on how it went down yesterday:

Matthew Panzarino said:
An inside look at HP killing webOS hardware: Here’s how it really went down.

Neither Palm devices, nor the HP TouchPad were ever going to be able to showcase webOS properly. That’s why yesterday’s news that HP was shutting down its webOS hardware development should have been welcomed by the company’s Personal Systems Group, a source familiar with the matter has told The Next Web.

Instead, the announcement was handled poorly, producing confusion about the future of webOS that may hurt its chances to survive.

HP made the announcement that it was ceasing to make webOS hardware, but neglected to get a hardware licensing deal in place before doing so. This seemed to drive home the point that webOS was dead in the water, when in fact it is very much alive and was never the issue. It was the hardware that was killing HP’s OS.

If HP had announced a licensing deal before the discontinuation of the hardware, the news would have gone much differently today. There would be no stories about the ‘death of webOS’, an OS that many of us thought was just starting to get good.

But HP did not secure licensing and now the most popular byline is about the death of webOS. But the whole inside story of the shuttering of HP’s webOS hardware division is far more interesting than the way it appeared from the outside and things might not be as grim for webOS as they first appear.

How it went down

Almost everyone at HP found out about the death of the TouchPad and Pre hardware as the public did, in the press release. Only the top executives knew anything about this decision and even senior staff as high as Ari Jaaksi, the Vice President of webOS software, didn’t know about the shuttering of hardware before it happened.

After the press release came out, there was a company wide meeting filled with a bunch of ‘corporate speak’, in which staff were told that they were going to be in limbo for 3-4 weeks.

The Next Web has also learned that way that the shuttering was announced shocked many inside the company because they knew that eventually HP was going to have to seek better hardware, ditching the current TouchPad and Pre in the process. Perhaps in a year, maybe longer, but only after HP had deals set to license the OS to a manufacturer that would make next-gen devices.

Although the rumors were that webOS was going to be licensed to a manufacturer like Samsung or HTC, no announcement was made at the meeting. Company-wide, however, the message has been, and continues to be, that webOS is going to be licensed to another hardware manufacturer, not completely trashed and not sold off.

What is the future of webOS?

Currently, the party line internally to the company is 100% licensing to another hardware manufacturer. There are no talks of selling whatsoever. This is something that most of the employees working with webOS would welcome as the current hardware was not showing off webOS well at all. There have been some indications that this is the case, although HP CEO Leo Apotheker is keeping mum on the exact future of webOS, at least publicly.

Because of the way that the hardware cancellation was announced, the future of webOS was made to look incredibly uncertain, which it very well could be unless a licensing deal is struck. Because HP didn’t announce a licensing deal up front, many employees working on webOS are unsure that they will have a job and HP stands to lose a lot of talent as employees get restless and begin looking for opportunities elsewhere.

We’re sure that at least some of the employees at HP’s Personal Systems Group have already begun receiving a lot of calls from recruiters working for other large Silicon Valley companies like Facebook, Google or Apple. There is a lot of talent at HP and they would be silly not to.

From what we were told, most HP employees are incredibly proud of webOS. They feel that they were building an OS with better design and interaction than Apple because they were more agile. Apple is seen as locked in to its design, unable to make drastic changes without affecting hundreds of developers and confusing customers. HP felt that this was its chance to shine against Apple by being more flexible and creating a unique experience with the interface of webOS.

HP saw Apple as its only close competitor in terms of design and software. Android was considered ‘utterly crap’ as far as customer experience and interaction and Apple was clearly the one to beat. People working on the project are apparently devastated by the fact that they might not get to continue their work and most at HP want a hardware partner that it can use to finish what it started with webOS.

What now?

Despite the uncertainty, the mood at HP was described to TNW as light and hopeful. These are incredibly dedicated and talented engineers who helped to create what many believe to be the one real potential contender with a fraction of the polish and presence of iOS. All they want is for the OS they’ve created to shine on hardware that is worthy.

HP’s hardware division is obviously taking the brunt of the hit, and an entire building of hardware and industrial engineers has been let go already. Some of these hardware engineers were most likely responsible for the 2-year old TouchPad hardware that caused HP to pull the plug. But these were also the same engineers working to make the next generation of webOS hardware better. They will never get the chance now.

The media made the situation far worse by pounding away at the “Death of webOS” headlines, when the fact of the matter is that the true future of webOS is, at least as of now, undecided. The hardware is dead, but webOS very well may live on, if, and only if, it can find a new home.
The Next Web
 

MATRIX 2

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#12
[QUOTE="Tutankhamun, post: 5637836]Yet.

-------


An interesting article on how it went down yesterday:



The Next Web[/QUOTE]

Never going to happen, MS has been at this for a while you know. They prefer to negotiate contracts for everything be it 2nd party exclusives for the 360 or hardware for their phone and computer/tablet OS's.
 

Tutankhamun

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#13
[QUOTE="MATRIX 2, post: 5637935]Never going to happen, MS has been at this for a while you know. They prefer to negotiate contracts for everything be it 2nd party exclusives for the 360 or hardware for their phone and computer/tablet OS's.[/QUOTE]

What they prefer and what the market will demand is two different things, we'll see.
 

MATRIX 2

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#14
[QUOTE="Tutankhamun, post: 5637943]What they prefer and what the market will demand is two different things, we'll see.[/QUOTE]

I dunno, people have been fine with the current system since inception. If need be MS can implement a WP7 software->hardware approach in other areas for a more consistent, enjoyable experience but that is the most I think they will do.

MS has never had a good history with hardware. (or 1st party game studios for that matter)
 
Oct 23, 2007
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Interesting article, funny how they call Android "utter crap". Sounds like sour grapes to be honest, its far from crap IMO. Also, shame HP won't be making the elite books anymore, very good machines in every way including price!
 
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MATRIX 2

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[QUOTE="weskurtz81, post: 5639340]Interesting article, funny how they call Android "utter crap". Sounds like sour grapes to be honest, its far from crap IMO. Also, shame HP won't be making the elite books anymore, very good machines in every way including price![/QUOTE]

Nothing is official yet about the PC side.

Also from what I heard it would be the consumer side of the business, not the business side (which includes the elitebooks).
 
Oct 23, 2007
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[QUOTE="MATRIX 2, post: 5639343]Nothing is official yet about the PC side.Also from what I heard it would be the consumer side of the business, not the business side (which includes the elitebooks).[/QUOTE]Cool, hopefully they continue making them, solid notebooks. Even though the margins aren't 30%, I would think they are high enough to continue being profitable. Funny thing is, Exxon comes under fire for record profits by the US government when they are only clearing about 10%.
 

Tutankhamun

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#19
[QUOTE="weskurtz81, post: 5639340]Interesting article, funny how they call Android "utter crap". Sounds like sour grapes to be honest, its far from crap IMO. Also, shame HP won't be making the elite books anymore, very good machines in every way including price![/QUOTE]

From a user experience and design perspective, Android is utterly crap compared to WebOS. You can argue WebOS is better designed than iOS.

[QUOTE="dc89, post: 5639402]Acer will probably take over as the largest hardware shifter in the world.[/QUOTE]

Apple will I believe.
 
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Mar 11, 2006
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Totally caught most people by surprise but the price of HP tablets went down to $99 for the 16GB and $149 for the 32GB at Best Buy two days ago:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...p=&qp=&list=n&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960

They were basically all snapped up Saturday. WebOS, for all intents and purposes, is dead. Palm was the only supporter of it, HP bought out Palm and they are basically calling the Palm buyout a wash. The iPad has now taken down the Dell tablet, the Acer tablet, the Motorola Xoom tablet and now the HP tablet. This is heading into a new rumor that the iPad 3 is coming next spring. Very interesting times.
 

[DT]

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#22
[QUOTE="Bligmerk, post: 5639749]Totally caught most people by surprise but the price of HP tablets went down to $99 for the 16GB and $149 for the 32GB at Best Buy two days ago:
[/QUOTE]

I came _so_ close to buying a 16GB for $99, figured it would be fun to mess around with, and for the price, it's a pretty cheap e-reader, that happens to have some nice tablet features, even, for just email/web, maybe for video playback. Plus word on the street is some devs will have Android hacked onto it, though who knows about the stability, etc.

Ultimately, I let my "Why do I need this" override my "Wow, I can't pass up on this for $99" :D
 

Tutankhamun

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#23
[QUOTE="squirrelbo1, post: 5639760]so they are going to solely rely on webOS licensing ??? that seems very strange. what else to hp do ????[/QUOTE]

They say they want to license it or sell it, I think it being sold is more likely. Apple has kicked the tires on Palm three times before, if they feel the patents and/or any engineers in the Palm department is worth getting they might buy them I guess. My guess is that HP will sell WebOS for the patents.

Licensing seems far fetched when they couldn't even get it to run well on hardware it was designed for.
 

squirrelbo1

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#24
Yeah but if they sell it, what do they have left after that if the pc hardware is going down the pan as well ?

squirrelbo1 is Tapatalking
 

Yuuichi

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Yeh got to say I was shocked with this. Anyone know if Gateway is going to being as HP owns them, but still keep gateway brand?
Well Dell, iBuypower, and other websites going to see a nice boom. Feel sorry for retailers that best buy(but not Best buy) they going to get a hard hit in an already bad area for business for them (pc mark ups are the suck).
 

Tutankhamun

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#28
[QUOTE="squirrelbo1, post: 5639833]Yeah but if they sell it, what do they have left after that if the pc hardware is going down the pan as well ?

squirrelbo1 is Tapatalking[/QUOTE]

Printers, business hardware and support for business. Pretty much doing a Dell, going consulting only.
 

[DT]

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#29
[QUOTE="Yuuichi, post: 5639874]Ahh my bad. Thought HP bought them.[/QUOTE]

That's OK, I actually had to look it up, but I thought it was someone other than HP.


[DT];5639775 said:
I came _so_ close to buying a 16GB for $99, figured it would be fun to mess around with, and for the price, it's a pretty cheap e-reader, that happens to have some nice tablet features, even, for just email/web, maybe for video playback. Plus word on the street is some devs will have Android hacked onto it, though who knows about the stability, etc.
So I got even closer ... as in I scored one online for $101, we'll see if it ships since this has been a Charlie Foxtrot :D
 

squirrelbo1

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#30
[DT];5640042 said:
So I got even closer ... as in I scored one online for $101, we'll see if it ships since this has been a Charlie Foxtrot :D
Good on you mate. Do tell us how it is. Im looking to see if any HP stuff going cheap in the UK atm


Also tut, yeah I suppose, even so its a massive shift


squirrelbo1 is Tapatalking