IMO Sony didn't plan on competing with MS

hood

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Dec 2, 2005
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#1
As we go farther into the PS3's life cycle it becomes apparent that Sony was expecting direct competition with the next Dreamcast.

(Sony attempted to create the next Dreamcast)

I do not believe they have entirely casted MS out of the equation but there are parallels between the Dreamcast and PS3. The Dreamcast's remote and the PSP are the same idea but the PSP is obviously more functional. I think that from there on Sony decided to create a machine that not only improves on Sega's idea but gives it an edge that would completely take it out of its league. Sony attempted to kill two birds with one stone Nintendo and Sega. You look at cloud saving with PS+ users and its sort of the same thing with the Dreamcast you could save your game on the little cartridge and take it to your friends house all of our game saves were at your finger tips. Then the cartridge also had mini games on it that you could play for example you could take care of your pets from sonic adventure on it and i think it had a few other things. Then there's playing games like madden your playbook would pop up on the controller rather than the screen. Sony also allowed MS to release a console before them and when Sony scrambled to react there were shortages for PS3's. MS took a huge lead into the console industry and Sony is still fighting to get back on top.

These are just a few minor things but even with the setback Sony continued its plan and they claim the PS3 is future proof. Sony endures lost of losses to its exclusives and customers along with a chunk of the market. They intentionally designed the PS3 to be an entertainment hub consistently rolling out updates and taking away what they felt is dead weight. Then launch a new campaign the "it only does everything" campaign. Most of the updates on the PS3 seemed like last minute attempts to compete with MS and now that is all out of the way they announce that the one most requested feature that MS has cross game chat is not possible on PS3.

Then Sony rolls out its trump card the Playstation Vita fully compatible with the PS3 you can use it as a controller and stream ps3 games to the PSV the kicker it has cross game chat. I wouldn't be surprised if things completely turn around for Sony. I don't know if this is possible but lets assume the PSV is pretty much the complete evolution of Sega's idea of the perfect controller.

Any comments i have to go so i cant finish this post completely but ill be back.
 
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Ghost

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Aug 12, 2009
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#2
It's interesting. I don't see why owners of the Vita wont be able to use its RAM, if using it as a controller, to do XGC while gaming on the PS3.

It's interesting that the inclusion of XGC on the Vita and the rather delayed announcement that it's not possible on PS3 aresl close together. Time will tell. :D

In general, Sony are in a very good position to deliver to gamers. Shit loads of games, pioneering 3D implementation, promising motion controls and now a handheld that has yet undisclosed PS3 integration. I know the gaming community is going on recently about XGC not being possible on PS3, but when it has the possibility to have a touch screen controller that can stream video and is also the most advanced portable on the market, you gotta wonder what's really important. :)
 
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Omar

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May 29, 2005
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#3
and that's why they lost ground to MS.

Wait a minute though, when did anyone expect Sega to release a new console after Dreamcast? They had officially dropped out.
 

sainraja

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Jun 16, 2006
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#4
[QUOTE="Sufi, post: 5639056]and that's why they lost ground to MS.

Wait a minute though, when did anyone expect Sega to release a new console after Dreamcast? They had officially dropped out.[/QUOTE]

He's forcing a connection between Sony and the PS3 with Sega and the Dreamcast. Sony didn't create the PS3 in the image of the Dreamcast or to compete with it.

Sega dropped out before the Xbox and Gamecube were introduced so I don't see how he can claim that Sega dropping out was a surprise for Sony.

With that said, let me just point to this:

http://www.1up.com/features/dreamcast-20

The above is a stronger parallel than the one hoods is making...
 
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hood

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#7
[QUOTE="squirrelbo1, post: 5639139]ITT: op tried to defend sony not doing as well as last gen with some crap about sega dreamcast[/QUOTE]

ok been busy all day so took me a while to respond to this thread but squirrelbo1 your wrong thats not my intention and I'm really not trying to make this a point about Sony not doing as well as last gen. What im trying to say is that the PS3 is loosely designed behind what a Dreamcast 2 would most likely could have been.

@Chille if Sony has already done this before with the psone why would they just up and abandon that project no reason not to improve.

I don't see anything that the ps3 had at launch that made it a direct competitor with the 360 when ps3 first came out it barely had anything on it. They didn't even plan on the ps3 having crossgame chat and that was on the original xbox. What i do see is that the ps3 has slowly turned into a media hub it has tv photo internet bluetooth wifi a media center it plays dvd's and bluray has netflix facebook hulu plus home, ect. What do they bring out the psp remote play to your ps3 that was just an experiment. Then they have the pspgo a failed prototype and then they go and bring out the PSV. What does the vita do it becomes your universal remote the vita could possible run everything remotely the kicker is it allows XGC.

Sony took Sega's idea and capitalized on it.

also the the Dreamcast was discontinued in 2001 a year after PS2 was released and was sold all the way into 2006. So the Dreamcast came out in 1998 and was still being sold into 2006 despite being discontinued. In 2005 Sony launched the PSP and the PS3 in 2006 what do you think sony did all that time it doesn't seem to me that MS was on the table and if they were what was stopping MS from taking Sega's formula?
 
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TDbank24

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Jul 25, 2008
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#8
If i was Sony coming into this generation i wouldn't have been too worried about the Xbox brand either. Sony dominated last generation. Absolute pure domination, and to think Microsoft had a more powerful console and the greatness that was Halo: CE in their back pocket.

This generation the roles have been reversed but there are many reasons for that. For the PS3 to only be 3 million sales behind the 360 with all that has happened that says a lot. Sony will be ready next time and i believe the PS4 will dominate the industry much like the PS2 did last generation.
 

hood

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#9
[QUOTE="TDbank24, post: 5639302]If i was Sony coming into this generation i wouldn't have been too worried about the Xbox brand either. Sony dominated last generation. Absolute pure domination, and to think Microsoft had a more powerful console and the greatness that was Halo: CE in their back pocket.

This generation the roles have been reversed but there are many reasons for that. For the PS3 to only be 3 million sales behind the 360 with all that has happened that says a lot. Sony will be ready next time and i believe the PS4 will dominate the industry much like the PS2 did last generation.[/QUOTE]

Im saying Sony saw the potential in the Dreamcast took it made it their own and got surprised by MS when they launched first and has been playing catch up ever since. They have caught up and they bring out the Vita to seal the deal. If Sony were to launch the PS4 I cant say that it will or it wont dominate next gen. MS has just as much of or possibly even more popularity than PS3 at this moment. Sony's ad campaigns couldn't even compete with MS until just recently. Even MS looked at the Dreamcast's controller when it came to the xbox. It's basicaly the same thing with an extra analog with minor improvements shoulder buttons and no VMU.

[QUOTE="sainraja, post: 5639099]He's forcing a connection between Sony and the PS3 with Sega and the Dreamcast. Sony didn't create the PS3 in the image of the Dreamcast or to compete with it.

Sega dropped out before the Xbox and Gamecube were introduced so I don't see how he can claim that Sega dropping out was a surprise for Sony.

With that said, let me just point to this:

http://www.1up.com/features/dreamcast-20

The above is a stronger parallel than the one hoods is making...[/QUOTE]

"Dreamcast will evolve much more into a network environment rather than a standalone system. It's not about you and the machine any more. It's about you competing against your friends, your enemies."
- Charles Belfield, Sega's VP of Marketing
 
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A1ANDY

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Apr 25, 2011
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#10
[QUOTE="TDbank24, post: 5639302]If i was Sony coming into this generation i wouldn't have been too worried about the Xbox brand either. Sony dominated last generation. Absolute pure domination, and to think Microsoft had a more powerful console and the greatness that was Halo: CE in their back pocket.

This generation the roles have been reversed but there are many reasons for that. For the PS3 to only be 3 million sales behind the 360 with all that has happened that says a lot. Sony will be ready next time and i believe the PS4 will dominate the industry much like the PS2 did last generation.[/QUOTE]

I think the time of market domination is over now. Now that the xbox brand has got some recognition and a large fan base I doubt it'll ever go back to ps2/xbox 1 market share. Sony still has the playstation brand but next gen I dont think it will matter much.
 
Aug 12, 2008
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#11
[QUOTE="TDbank24, post: 5639302]For the PS3 to only be 3 million sales behind the 360 with all that has happened that says a lot.[/QUOTE]
i'd have said due to the 360's RRoD, i'm surprised Sony did not pass them along long time ago. but then again... i think Sony have done really well to get that close to 360 sales considering the extra cost of PS3.
 
Mar 24, 2007
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#13
I can tell you one thing if anyone is copying the dreamcast its is microsoft not sony, as microsoft orginnally designed the first xbox to play dreamcast games, but as it was such a massive flop they didnt want the console to be known in connection with there first console, so the plans were dropped. The pocketstation was released Janurary 1999 it was a vmu clone for psone, but thats as far as sony went they dropped the project in the same year, which is why it was never released outside of japan *though it did very well there, games like FF8 and Crash 3 had really good bonus mini games for it.
 

TGO

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Feb 26, 2006
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#14
Xbox 360....well Xbox in general is the Dream Casts successor, 360 more then the original.
yeah Sony didn't plan on competing, they didn't with the PS2, they was arrogant, but! unlike Microsoft Sony had god dam every reason to be, they earned the right to be, they rule two generations in a row and sold more consoles then Sega & Nintendo had done in their life time
but it wasn't the competition they needed to worry about, it was the press & customers, especially customers listening to the press, I don't think any company has ever release a console with so much negativity surrounding it.
 

hood

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#15
[QUOTE="Dave-The-Rave, post: 5639544]WTF are you on about? Sega has been out of the picture for a looooooong time. WELL before the PS3 came out.[/QUOTE]

It's pretty obvious that the ps3 came out after the dreamcast. What I'm talking about is the ps3 is being turned into the central hub and the psv is the universal remote. The ps3 can run your dvd's, bluray movies, has movie rentals, music services, plays CDs, stores photos with slide shows, streams media from your pc with media servers, plays games, has the online store where you can download games for psp/psv and ps3. It has cloud saving, removable hdd, 3d support, has an internet browser, Facebook, twitter, home, and ect. All in all it can't do the one thing xgc and thats something the xbox had. Sony saw what Sega had and improved on it vastly they release the psp then add remote play to ps3. Now with the release of the psv not so far away what the dreamcast 2 could have been Sony completed it. The PSV will have Skype and xgc and can be used as a controller for the ps3. When you plan on starting a new project you have to plan years ahead it doesn't matter that Sega dropped out what matters is that Sony had to create a device to compete with it. When the Ps2 released in 2000 and the Dreamcast discontinued in 2001 it was not ignored.
Sony saw that people were in love with the dreamcast all the way into 2006 despite being discontinued ask yourself what is it that stood out about the dreamcast? The only thing that can come to my mind is the controller. It was very trendy and functional MS copied the controller added an extra analog removed the vmu and added a few buttons, Sony made the PSP. They released the PSP in 2005 and the PS3 in 2006 here we are 2011 and finding out the ps3 isn't even capable of xgc. How do you release a console that doesn't even have the capability of your main competitor and you also have a late and botched launch. The funny thing is that people in this thread are willing to admit that MS took ideas from Sega but Sony learned nothing from Sega.
 

TGO

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Feb 26, 2006
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#16
I don't think anyone is saying Sony didn't learn anything from Sega, people are just not agreeing with the PSV thing.
And Xbox didn't copy the DC, it is the DC in spirit.
 

Super_Lilith

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Nov 9, 2006
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#17
I don't think they planned on competing with anyone this gen. They established such a powerful and dominant brand with PlayStation, they must have thought taking the same approach as previous would give them the same success.
 

Tetsu

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#18
In the early days, the 360 wasn't selling all that well, even with the gaming press gushing over it and glossing over the horrendous failure rate - close to 70%. Just imagine if they gave half as much attention to this as they did the PS3's high price.

But everyone from America and the UK laments PS3's "poor sales," because they ignore the rest of the world where the 360 isn't selling well.
 

swopdark

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Jan 13, 2006
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#19
IMHO Sony didn't really expected the xbox to be such a powerhouse in the field of online gaming and networking with your friend via the internet. The complete lack of a "playstation-branded" headset from launch is the best example of MS throwing Sony off-guard with their perfectly implemented voice and friends support.

Sony was and is trying to get the most out of the hardware of the PS3 to get the voice and other social features into the XMB and is getting there. PSN evolved into a serious online gaming network with stability on the same level as the LIVE brand from microsoft. The evolvement of PSN over the years is another good example of the road Sony had to go down to match LIVE.

Sony was the company to beat when this generation started to unfold. The PS2 was truley unrivaled and unmatched and whit the new gen all the slated were clean. It is easy to see that MS took their "loss" that was the original xbox and dropped support alltogheter for the system in order to concentrate all their money and knowhow into the xbox 360. They weren't going to lose this time from a "non american" company and both Sony and MS could not expect the big comeback of Nintendo by fishing in an completly different pond. a pond Sony and MS din't think to be rich of fish.

MS really pulled a nice one on Sony with the following steps:
- Launch a good year before the PS3
- Make it cheap by not doing fancy stuff like BluRay or intergrated WIFI
- Bring out a hardcore shooter on the newest engine (Gears of War) ASAP to blow everything out of the water.
- Make press focus on all possible negativities from the PS3 and focus on all positive things from xbox

For the last reason is remember reading all about the price of the PS3, all about the ongoing war between (the very superior) HDDVD vs Blu ray and that going for Blu ray was like betting on a dead horse. BD roms were to be very easely scratched, expensive to make, while HDDVD were very solid disks and all DVD factories around the world could be made into HDDVD factories in just about one night of hard work with minimal expense. The big advantage that was Blu ray driver were to be made an complete joke and nothing but an thing that would flop big time.

The cell proc was a nightmare to program for and offcourse not enough RAM. And on top of that, no rumble in the controller. Sony better get their act toghether for the PS4 and i bet they will because all the errors the made during launch of The PS3 can only make an company stronger and smarter for the next round. VITA is a very good example of all the things learned from de PS3 and PSP Go: don't make is too expensive, dont hold out on hardware and make great games....