Iphone 4 or ????

zeon9881

Forum Elder
Jul 7, 2007
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#1
So in one week the iphone 4 is launching in Canada. Ive been searching it up and alot of people say that the phone sucks and to get a different one. The problem is I can't choose. Ive looked at alot of phones such as xperia x10, Moto. milestone, Moto. Droid X (which isnt out in Canada.) So I need you to help me choose a phone. It has to be a touchscreen phone.

Update-
Is Fido-Iphone 4 sold out in Toronto, Canada
 
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kuku

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Oct 19, 2006
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#3
[QUOTE="zeon9881, post: 5108275]So in one week the iphone 4 is launching in Canada. Ive been searching it up and alot of people say that the phone sucks and to get a different one. The problem is I can't choose. Ive looked at alot of phones such as xperia x10, Moto. milestone, Moto. Droid X (which isnt out in Canada.) So I need you to help me choose a phone. It has to be a touchscreen phone.[/QUOTE]

Question 1: Do you like Macs or own a mac
Question 2: Have you ever used itunes or ipod
Question 3: Do you like the carrier of iphone

If all of those are yes, iphone will overwhelmingly positive for you. If they're all no, it's best you look at other options.

People who say iphone sucks are SOB's to put it bluntly. Nothing that sells millions and millions and incite 24hr+ wait lines are bad.

It's a good phone with limited options, that's what it boils down to. If you like the fenced in rose garden, stuff just work model, Apple is right for you. If you like to be geeky and try to thinker with stuff you probably have no right to thinker, and don't mind the mess you make afterwards, the droid flavors are better.

The most obvious reason why not to droid cause people problems is the fact that users are people expecting people to bend over backwards to get stuff to work and customize.

Iphone is all about the hassle free, easy click click model. (as long as you don't mind paying)

If you're afraid of techno jargon, iphone is just right. It's dumb down to the level of popularity.
 
Sep 7, 2007
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#4
Hah that was hilarious.
"tinker with stuff you probably don't need to tinker with and dont mind the mess you make later".
Pretty bold statement huh? You are meant to tweak, you are encouraged...Android is open source...often times changes result in a better phone than you bought.

Simply put OP, it was said best;

Android is science, Apple is religion.

You either side with one to learn and better yourself, or you follow the "millions of people who can't be wrong" and just go with the masses.

At the end of the day its just a phone, the question you should ask is how much you want out of it. I think that's what the kid above was saying. Only not so simply. People want to make it sound like you need to be a geek to get the maximum potential out of your Android phone. Not true.

Research. This forum probably isn't the best place to get phone info...you get posts like these LOL biased...but I'm trying to be honest. Look at what matters to you.
 

kuku

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Oct 19, 2006
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#5
[QUOTE="iToke, post: 5108366]Hah that was hilarious.
"tinker with stuff you probably don't need to tinker with and dont mind the mess you make later".
Pretty bold statement huh? You are meant to tweak, you are encouraged...Android is open source...often times changes result in a better phone than you bought.

Simply put OP, it was said best;

Android is science, Apple is religion.

You either side with one to learn and better yourself, or you follow the "millions of people who can't be wrong" and just go with the masses.

At the end of the day its just a phone, the question you should ask is how much you want out of it. I think that's what the kid above was saying. Only not so simply. People want to make it sound like you need to be a geek to get the maximum potential out of your Android phone. Not true.

Research. This forum probably isn't the best place to get phone info...you get posts like these LOL biased...but I'm trying to be honest. Look at what matters to you.[/QUOTE]


This is from someone that just posted
Does the average consumer worry about all that bull**** on their computer? Most of the time not. Same with phones. If they care enough to remove they'll root...its simple in most cases and while yes, it void warranty, you can always revert. People want to make it all sound crazier than it is.
The non tech community already have Blackberry RIM support up the wazhoo with not knowing what to do. I get cases where lawyers stop using their blackberry because the update procedure is overly complicated.

Iphone is designed around people who are willing to forego anything and have upto a maximum of webpage level input. While people have done a great deal amount of things to exposed the more technical side of innards, the developers have made great pains to mush that into easy to use package.

Iphones doesn't scare people. The droid still does. Heck the fact that droid flavors vs singular model iphone status make the mind up for consumers sometimes.

This is what happens when you have a model that is based on design oriented company vs a model based on engineering based company.

A lot could be said about apple's draconian policies regarding stuff (like the infamous flash, sex apps, etc). The fenced-in rose garden is pretty enticing when its done as well as apple does it.
 
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Sep 7, 2007
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#6
The Droid is a phone, Android is what you mean.
And what about BB updates? Is that hard to do? I'm not a BB person.

And way to use my post, from another thread, and try to make a point. That was in reference to bloatware, and the ease at which you can remove. But people want to make it sound crazier than it is. That was my point ...
 
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#7
It's a very personnel choice.

I have the iPhone 4 and I'd certainly recommend it. The best phone I have ever owned.

I'm not a big fan of Android phones, but saying that I've never owned one! I've used other peoples and such but never actually had one for myself. Maybe my opinion would change but not at the moment.
 
Sep 7, 2007
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#8
Yeah, just take a couple hours, OP, looking around and comparing the phones and features.
I know some iPhone-ers that love their stuff, 4 included. I don't hate Apple, used to be quite a fan. Wouldn't be opposed to buying anything Apple branded, but gone are the days when one rules them all ... phones at least. ;)

Maybe the next iPhone will be enough to pull me back in. Cause as it stands now ... it's not like when the first iPhone came out.
 
Oct 23, 2007
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#9
[QUOTE="iToke, post: 5108431]Yeah, just take a couple hours, OP, looking around and comparing the phones and features.
I know some iPhone-ers that love their stuff, 4 included. I don't hate Apple, used to be quite a fan. Wouldn't be opposed to buying anything Apple branded, but gone are the days when one rules them all ... phones at least. ;)

Maybe the next iPhone will be enough to pull me back in. Cause as it stands now ... it's not like when the first iPhone came out.[/QUOTE]

Pretty much this. It's no longer like it was when the first, second, and MAYBE even third iPhone came out. Now, there is some VERY solid competition.

And, using both Android and an iPhone extensively, I can say an Android device isn't ONLY good for people that want to tinker with stuff. My GF has been using her G1 for over a year, and she has been loving it.

I can count on one hand how many times she has needed my help with something on her phone. I automatically updates over the air, so you might go through the life of the phone without EVER plugging it into a computer to manage the device. Plus, Android has really come a LONG way from a year ago to today with 2.2.

But, the iPhone USUALLY just works. The current one has some MINOR flaws in it that CAN create usability issues, but it's nothing that makes the phone unusable or that you cannot fix with a case/bumper. Apple does lock the platform down, but it's a sleek device with a slick intuitive OS, just about anyone can pick up and use. The major downside for some is how limiting it can be.

On the other hand, Android isn't QUITE as easy to use, but it's wide open and really still pretty damned easy to use. One downside for some to the Android model is that carriers can install additional software on the devices, but they don't cripple them. We have a couple Droid X's here in the office, and Verizon put a few junk apps on them, but nothing that's a big deal, and they don't run all the time or hurt performance.
 

zeon9881

Forum Elder
Jul 7, 2007
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#10
Well I understand that. I know the Android is much more customizable but the problem is the only good Android phones here are Moto. Milesone (Droid in America) and Xperia X10. So is it possible for me to buy a phone such as Motorola Droid X from America and use it in Canada?

Also are the apps in the Android market as good/fun (game wise) as the apps in iphone?
 

Firefox

Master Sage
Jan 7, 2006
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#12
You're in Canada? Go with WIND Mobile... and the Samsung Vibrant. Trust me, even if you pay more for a phone without contract you actually save much more money over time because Rogers/Telus/Bell rates are ridiculous!

WIND has awesome promos going on right now.
http://www2.windmobile.ca/en/Pages/Offers.aspx

This phone can:
1) Play MKV's and most formats. :D (so I've heard, google it to confirm) .. FLAC too I hear.
2) Has HDMI out to connect to tv!

[video=youtube;dcgHd4f4llw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcgHd4f4llw[/video]

Cellworldco is an authorized WIND online dealer and you can get it there.
 
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PsychoMantis

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Nov 20, 2005
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#13
I would wait until they get the antenna problem fixed it might be already fixed. My friend at work wants the iPhone 4 because his other one broke but hes waiting until its fixed before he gets one.
 

Firefox

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Jan 7, 2006
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#14
[QUOTE="PsychoMantis, post: 5109132]I would wait until they get the antenna problem fixed it might be already fixed. My friend at work wants the iPhone 4 because his other one broke but hes waiting until its fixed before he gets one.[/QUOTE]

Many of the users on this forum don't have problems with their reception (but they are in the UK) I think it has to do with areas with very weak reception only I think. (ie. San francisco and other at&t weak spots)
 

[DT]

Forum Guru
May 1, 2008
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#15
[QUOTE="Firefox, post: 5109126]You're in Canada? Go with WIND Mobile... and the Samsung Vibrant.[/QUOTE]

So far my few hours with my new Captivate have been stellar (see main Android thread). The core phone product is the Samsung Galaxy S, then the different carriers do a little tweak here and there and brand it - so the Vibrant and Captivate are both Galaxy S phones (mine even says it on the back).

I won't go on too much about it in this thread, other than the display is awesome, it's fast and very flexible/customizable!
 
#17
One thing to consider is the network that you have to use in your area. There are areas in the US where AT&T simply does not pick up at all. I have a 3GS and I am very happy with it because I live in an area with good coverage.

I have it jb, so that pretty much contradicts some of the locked down OS discussion above. I have yet to update to iOS4 and I am not feeling all that desparate to do it. Every app that has been updated for OS4 works fine on the old jb OS. I will probably wait for a blackra1n jb to the phone before I update it.

I have no working knowledge of other phones, so there may be something out there that fits your individual needs better. I can say that I am very happy with my iPhone, though.
 
Oct 23, 2007
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#18
[QUOTE="Tutankhamun, post: 5109218]If you want an OS made by engineers get an Android. If you want an experience made by users get an iPhone.[/QUOTE]

I have to say, not really that simple. The Android OS is pretty easy to use, maybe not as easy as the iPhone, but it is MUCH more flexible. The iPhone certainly does have an "easy to use" OS, and it IS easier than Android is currently (but it's evolving RAPIDLY), but I don't think saying one is made by engineers and the other is an experience made by users is really accurate.
 
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Sep 7, 2007
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#19
[QUOTE="weskurtz81, post: 5109313]I have to say, not really that simple. The Android OS is pretty easy to use, maybe not as easy as the iPhone, but it is MUCH more flexible. The iPhone certainly does have an "easy to use" OS, and it IS easier than Android is currently (but it's evolving RAPIDLY), but I don't think saying one is made by engineers and the other is an experience made by users is really accurate.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, you're right, it's not that simple.
What about the devs that customize some **** for you to use on your android device? Is that not made / customized by users? It's not like you are set with what you get as you can use others ROMs ... so in that sense, you can use something made as is or use something optimized / tweaked /perfected by users .... that's the way I see it at least.

Sure, FroYo released by google, but "perfected" and "tweaked" by Devs to use on your device. I guess it's not directly "created" by users, but finely crafted and optimized.

I dunno, Android can seem overwhelming but it really isn't.
 

Tutankhamun

Ultimate Veteran
Aug 2, 2006
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#20
[QUOTE="weskurtz81, post: 5109313]I have to say, not really that simple. The Android OS is pretty easy to use, maybe not as easy as the iPhone, but it is MUCH more flexible. The iPhone certainly does have an "easy to use" OS, and it IS easier than Android is currently (but it's evolving RAPIDLY), but I don't think saying one is made by engineers and the other is an experience made by users is really accurate.[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying being made by engineers is a bad thing. Just saying that's the difference. Look at it this way; I love gmail it has the best features ever seen for mail. They are innovating like crazy but it's really, really ugly.

MobileMe and it's web email interface is beautiful but no where near the features that gmail has, it got the essentials but nothing more. But it's truly beautiful.
 
Oct 23, 2007
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#21
[QUOTE="iToke, post: 5109330]Yeah, you're right, it's not that simple.
What about the devs that customize some **** for you to use on your android device? Is that not made / customized by users? It's not like you are set with what you get as you can use others ROMs ... so in that sense, you can use something made as is or use something optimized / tweaked /perfected by users .... that's the way I see it at least.

Sure, FroYo released by google, but "perfected" and "tweaked" by Devs to use on your device. I guess it's not directly "created" by users, but finely crafted and optimized.

I dunno, Android can seem overwhelming but it really isn't.[/QUOTE]

If my girlfriend, who is not tech savvy, can navigate around an Android device with ease, then it's not difficult to use. Time and time again, I give my phone to non-android users, and they get along just fine.
 
Sep 7, 2007
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#22
Yeah i think it can just seem overwhelming. It's no crazier than maximizing the potential out of a computer, or simply using it as is.
 

Firefox

Master Sage
Jan 7, 2006
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#24
As a Canadian I really don't think it matters between iPhone vs. Android because you should go for lower rates primarily (we all know how expensive our plans are).

This is why I tell you again to ignore iPhone vs. Android and go with the best plan you can find. See my first post in this thread to see what I think the best option is. (WIND Mobile)
 

kuku

Veteran
Oct 19, 2006
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#25
[QUOTE="weskurtz81, post: 5109337]If my girlfriend, who is not tech savvy, can navigate around an Android device with ease, then it's not difficult to use. Time and time again, I give my phone to non-android users, and they get along just fine.[/QUOTE]

That doesn't mean much if all they do is make calls and send SMS. As long as every little problem/install they have someone to call up to fix, it's fine.

The difference is the iphone was meant to be self-reliant, thus the fenced-rose garden. CEOs have used their blackberries for years without knowing a single thing about syncing other then plug it in, because IT support does the rest, but somehow they can manage their own iphones.

I find it odd that techies tend to hate iphone/itunes more then the casual, because they are stuck to certain metrologies, like going manual drag and dropping songs. and to the extent of taking out itunes all together.

The correct way is actually to make itunes do everything, and then sync without any care for the iphone end. iphones/ipod is meant to be a "temporary" place holder copy to the "master itunes". Which makes for great management. You can format, edit, delete, and do anything, because as long as the computer master is there, the next sync/restore will make it spotless again.

iphones tend to want to save the user from themselves at all cost.

But anyway, in CAN, the plans will suck no matter what. A smart phone is a drop in the bucket compare to the plan.

Another question is business vs personal. iphone has a head start when it comes to business support, exchange last I played is still crappy on 2.2
 
Oct 23, 2007
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#26
[QUOTE="kuku, post: 5109585]That doesn't mean much if all they do is make calls and send SMS. As long as every little problem/install they have someone to call up to fix, it's fine.

The difference is the iphone was meant to be self-reliant, thus the fenced-rose garden. CEOs have used their blackberries for years without knowing a single thing about syncing other then plug it in, because IT support does the rest, but somehow they can manage their own iphones.

I find it odd that techies tend to hate iphone/itunes more then the casual, because they are stuck to certain metrologies, like going manual drag and dropping songs. and to the extent of taking out itunes all together.

The correct way is actually to make itunes do everything, and then sync without any care for the iphone end. iphones/ipod is meant to be a "temporary" place holder copy to the "master itunes". Which makes for great management. You can format, edit, delete, and do anything, because as long as the computer master is there, the next sync/restore will make it spotless again.

iphones tend to want to save the user from themselves at all cost.

But anyway, in CAN, the plans will suck no matter what. A smart phone is a drop in the bucket compare to the plan.

Another question is business vs personal. iphone has a head start when it comes to business support, exchange last I played is still crappy on 2.2[/QUOTE]

On her G1, after two years, she has needed 0 support from anyone. She found the apps that she wanted, set up her gmail, does everything on her own. However, she does not know how to get the pictures from her digital camera to her computer, and is afriad to sync her iPod because it wiped out all her music once after replacing an old computer.

On the exchange support, my iPhone was no better than my n1 in regards to exchange support. Not sure how its crappy on 2.2.
 

newjaruz

Apprentice
Dec 2, 2008
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#27
While you are on the topic of promoting or endorsing apples seamless syncing ability.. their ability is limited to media i.e. music.. and maybe contacts. while android actually saves everything to the cloud contacts/apps downloaded and phones settings like ringtone/wallpaper/desktop setup with the exception of widgets.. and other settings.. and will soon include music on the cloud.. Well I'll just get to the point... While the iPhone is great at music management for those that use iTunes.. it really doesn't do much else and I also don't see how it is "self-reliant" if it was self reliant it wouldnt need to connect to a real cumputing device to manage everything from updates/to adding music/ and other things ... while android seems to do better at being more of a self-reliant device... In short the only time I have to plug my android in is to hack it... or yes drag and drop music files.. other than that it is self-reliant... I don't have to plug my phone into apples proprietary connection to use their software to manage my music.. which can inexplicably erase my music and or change the format of media without my consent. Updates occur over the air, contact sync over the air/ i don't have to plug into anything but a power source for battery juice.
 

kuku

Veteran
Oct 19, 2006
4,310
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#28
[QUOTE="newjaruz, post: 5110330]While you are on the topic of promoting or endorsing apples seamless syncing ability.. their ability is limited to media i.e. music.. and maybe contacts. while android actually saves everything to the cloud contacts/apps downloaded and phones settings like ringtone/wallpaper/desktop setup with the exception of widgets.. and other settings.. and will soon include music on the cloud.. Well I'll just get to the point... While the iPhone is great at music management for those that use iTunes.. it really doesn't do much else and I also don't see how it is "self-reliant" if it was self reliant it wouldnt need to connect to a real cumputing device to manage everything from updates/to adding music/ and other things ... while android seems to do better at being more of a self-reliant device... In short the only time I have to plug my android in is to hack it... or yes drag and drop music files.. other than that it is self-reliant... I don't have to plug my phone into apples proprietary connection to use their software to manage my music.. which can inexplicably erase my music and or change the format of media without my consent. Updates occur over the air, contact sync over the air/ i don't have to plug into anything but a power source for battery juice.[/QUOTE]

Is wireless sync what you're really touting as the apple-killer? Zune had it since 2007, and iphone had it for a short time as well (until apple rejected the app).

For whatever reason, apple doesn't want wireless sync, either from connectivity issue, or otherwise, or secretly trying to make their own apple-style version.

In any event, and my own "IMHO" remark to that. I'm charging it, what's the point of wireless syncing over wifi, when it's already syncing during re-charge. If wireless sync was such a hot commodity, Zunes wouldn't be the laughing stock of the IT world.

I'm sure apple's paranoid or something else is preventing wireless syncing, but then perhaps they foresaw something that might rock other people's avenue later on.

Back to management, I can say android has as fas as apple is ahead in develop for management. Android suck on syncing the whole package. Apple's forte is definitely more seamless.

Android has royalling screwed with my support over the course of its life time. Everything from Gmail's services blowing up and whipping to mysterious errors, to geez I can't name the amount of times something goes screwy.

Apple isn't the golden boy in making things work, but Android is behind when it comes to making things "just work" in relation to syncing. about 3x as many call I get from android sync issues then iphone(very low) to Blackberry sync issue (a lot)

It says a lot when Gmail works better on the iphone then on the android.

One thing wrong with Google is they want nothing to do with syncing for android, their own OS. Sure they will provide every API with source code and stuff, and they will provide services like gmail, picsa, etc.

But they sure as heck want nothing to do with syncing in terms of physical software. Everyone recommends a different sync program when you talk about android, on macs/windows/linux/etc.

It does irks me on a practical level that the only thing google refuses to go on even terms on the smart phone world happens to be the best features of the competitors.
 
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Oct 23, 2007
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#29
Kuku,

Its not syncing over wifi, its syncing over the cell towers. So I could be driving down the road and it will sync the contact I just added.

After using both the iPhone and Android, I have to say the Android device does it better. I don't use any app to sync, and it does a great job, don't even have to think about it.

As for gmail, never a single problem. On the G1, its been flawless for 2 years, this one for a few months.

Honestly, after your post, it really seems like you don't know a whole lot about Android and how well it syncs or gmail works on it.
 

kuku

Veteran
Oct 19, 2006
4,310
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#30
[QUOTE="weskurtz81, post: 5110451]Kuku,

Its not syncing over wifi, its syncing over the cell towers. So I could be driving down the road and it will sync the contact I just added.

After using both the iPhone and Android, I have to say the Android device does it better. I don't use any app to sync, and it does a great job, don't even have to think about it.

As for gmail, never a single problem. On the G1, its been flawless for 2 years, this one for a few months.

Honestly, after your post, it really seems like you don't know a whole lot about Android and how well it syncs or gmail works on it.[/QUOTE]

I know it fairly well since I have to field support them on top of other competing devices, and it's not sunshine and roses for any of them, but android is the worse of my lot because it's exactly the sync issue. That there isn't any real unified sync mechanism.

Goggle's apps for all it's intent falls way short behind the curtain. There's always an error, a feature, a discrepancy, hidden behind the the massive amount of forums and faqs, that pulls my hair. And the worse part is, some of them get fixed or broken behind that curtain, without a whisper to any public announcement.

I have to deal with google's IMAP going bonkers deleting mail, blacking out, and even falling into the IMAP bandwidth over limit(result in a silent 48hr ban)
I have to deal with contacts going reverse sync on me because the api goes crazy during sync and deletes changes, or destroys groups.
I have to deal with picas dying, or calendar's changing protocols
I have to deal with Google changing stuff in the background, and not updating their faq, and digging through forums.

I love google for what it is, but I hate google in being engineering first and a company second. I don't want to dig through mountains of threads to find out why something that used to work stop, or something that wasn't working, suddenly work. I don't want to follow a specific FAQ that turns out to be outdated without any notice. I don't want to run into new features that no one knew about because it was secretly implemented the next morning.

Google is google. and because they want this "cloud" I have to deal with every bump in the road, that is at controlled at google's whim. They do good stuff, but bad at dealing with the fallouts.

And that is why I get 3x as much trouble supporting android phones then other phones. It's weakest point has always been stability. We can't change when we want to, work with a known whitelist when we want to, and approach stuff when we want to: and that's why android is on the bottom of my prefer support list.

I don't accuse android of being bad, I just don't prefer to have people think it'll be all roses and sun shine. The reality is google has always done things like a science experiment then a product.
 
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