Latest Rumour Suggests PS4 Will Have Half The RAM Of Xbox 720

Centurion

Dedicated Member
May 15, 2008
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#31
[QUOTE="Vulgotha, post: 5987310]

I've also read statements saying that the direct comparisons between the two using relatively worthless units of performance like "Flops" is an exercise in futility since such metrics don't really mean much for consoles... And because both systems have very radical architectures. Not very PC like at all.

[/QUOTE]

How so? They both seem to be going with AMD CPU/APU and GPU technology that will be in PC's/Laptops.
 

Vulgotha

Power Member
Jan 6, 2007
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#32
Not entirely true. As mentioned, the 720 is rumored to basically be one monstrous SoC with a bunch of custom pieces to help out the 8 core Jaguar\Bobcat CPU and whatever (dual?) GPU hybrid thing it's using.

From alleged insider information from guys who work with AMD or are part of the supply chain, the stuff that MS\AMD are doing to the 720 is "truly unique" and AMD has placed a high level of priority on it. People keep saying that, for instance, its GPU architecture is "not at all like what we've seen before" and that there are "really exciting results".

etc.

Maybe it's a bunch of nonsense, but a few sources have said that its a very custom piece of silicon and its ambitious.


@Bio

I don't know what Sony's angle is here. But apparently their machine has the potential to be more powerful, pending more information from the 720's GPU and memory architecture. However, it is seemingly not as easy to work with.. So once again it's Sony's 1st party devs that will shine.

This isn't so much a problem for Sony I guess, as they have the world's best and most talented developers of all the console manufacturers. One could say they have a few of the best studios in the world period. Still, I can't see how making things a bit more difficult for everyone (even if the performance is there) is a good thing for them as a company. First, they're in a bad way financially. Second, by all indications MS will once again launch before the PS4. I dunno, it just seems like a bad call.

Maybe it won't be as big of a developer fiasco as the PS3 was in its early years, but if I were them I'd make it as dev friendly as possible and place that as a reasonably high priority. It'd be one thing if they were first out the gate by some sizable margin, but that's definitely not going to be the case.

I'm kind of worried for Sony tbh. I'm hoping the PS4 is a huge success and helps put a little bit more wind in their sails, but they need to seriously evolve as a company if they want to stay competitive.. And solvent.
 
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J3ff3

Elite Guru
Dec 30, 2006
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#33
^ that's conflicting info though :)

i agree with what you are saying, because i've heard/read the same.

but the 720s architecture is supposed to be more customised, therefore further removed from current APU set-ups. that should make it more difficult, not less, to work with, no?

and in terms of the ps4 being more powerful, this idea has surely come from a conventional view of the rumours. but like you said, if AMD are working on a more customised GPU/CPU solution for the 720, then comparing the GPUs with flops is pretty meaningless, as is looking at the CPU without looking at the custom blocks that'll (apparently) offload things like DSP. memory bandwidth comparisons are also as futile, because as you mentioned the ESRAM is not taken into account.

from what i can gather most people (apparently) in the know say that performance wise it is a wash. which is a surprise because specs wise they appear so different.
 

jj03

Elite Guru
Apr 7, 2007
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#34
[QUOTE="claud3, post: 5986787]They are really squeezing out every fake detail possible, for us to fall for them

I mean it's got so so desperate, that they are downgrading the power of a Ps4... Next thing will be the Same said about the Xbox720
It will have less power than the Ps4... Were does it end all this bullshit[/QUOTE]

Most of us seasoned gamers won`t believe this anyways. Having seen this sorta shit repeatedly over the years...it makes me wanna vomit lol.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
 
Mar 2, 2007
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#35
Well, the ps3's split architecture 256mb gddr3 vram @ 700 MHz and 256mb xdr ram @ 3.2 GHz has worked out pretty good as far as outright graphical omph goes. Just look at Uncharted 3, KZ3, The last of Us etc. Optimization of software tools does wonders, so either way I wouldn't be worried. But we have to remember, that MS aims for the xbox 720 to be a lot more than "just" for games, they're really getting behind augmented reality and integration with the rest of the MS ecosystem, so even if MS has 8 gigs of total ram, it might end up reserving a lot more for OS/Kinect 2.0.

But seriously, this is all pointless until MS and/or Sony do their reveals.
 
Mar 2, 2007
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#36
Well, the ps3's split architecture 256mb gddr3 vram @ 700 MHz and 256mb xdr ram @ 3.2 GHz has worked out pretty good as far as outright graphical omph goes. Just look at Uncharted 3, KZ3, The last of Us etc. Optimization of software tools does wonders, so either way I wouldn't be worried. But we have to remember, that MS aims for the xbox 720 to be a lot more than "just" for games, they're really getting behind augmented reality and integration with the rest of the MS ecosystem, so even if MS has 8 gigs of total ram, it might end up reserving a lot more for OS/Kinect 2.0.

We won't know anything until MS and/or Sony do their reveals.
 

CMac21

Apprentice
Jul 2, 2008
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#37
[QUOTE="LfCpS3, post: 5986792]I keep hearing that the console style RAM is more expensive.[/QUOTE]

I believe it was only more expensive because Sony decided to use XDR instead of the more common DDR that is in the 360 and PCs.
 

PS4freak

Counting Mod
Staff member
May 15, 2006
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#39
[QUOTE="brebaz, post: 5986828]They just took what people say on the forums and just made an article about it.

Rumors are fake until proven otherwise.[/QUOTE]

Agree with you there. There is so much stock put into these rumors just like Sales numbers showing which console is in the lead. I will do what I've been doing and wait and see.
 

J3ff3

Elite Guru
Dec 30, 2006
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#40
[QUOTE="PS3-The Ultimate Machine, post: 5987742]Well, the ps3's split architecture 256mb gddr3 vram @ 700 MHz and 256mb xdr ram @ 3.2 GHz has worked out pretty good as far as outright graphical omph goes. Just look at Uncharted 3, KZ3, The last of Us etc. Optimization of software tools does wonders, so either way I wouldn't be worried. But we have to remember, that MS aims for the xbox 720 to be a lot more than "just" for games, they're really getting behind augmented reality and integration with the rest of the MS ecosystem, so even if MS has 8 gigs of total ram, it might end up reserving a lot more for OS/Kinect 2.0.

But seriously, this is all pointless until MS and/or Sony do their reveals.[/QUOTE]

an ex MS employee on b3d has all but confirmed 3 custom blocks (one including DSP) that will take workload off the CPU. there is speculation that some sort of dedicated kinect solution will be incorporated.

and as far as i'm aware, MS' dashboard has never been anymore resource hungry than sonys - in fact at one stage i thought it was the otherway around
 
S

Soldier 95B

Guest
#41
[QUOTE="J3ff3, post: 5987801]an ex MS employee on b3d has all but confirmed 3 custom blocks (one including DSP) that will take workload off the CPU. there is speculation that some sort of dedicated kinect solution will be incorporated.

and as far as i'm aware, MS' dashboard has never been anymore resource hungry than sonys - in fact at one stage i thought it was the otherway around[/QUOTE]

The MS dashboard was less resource hungry at one point, yes. I don't know if that ever changed, but I assume it did at least with this new metro dashboard. I think it is running silverlight as well? I don't know anything about programming, but with MS continuing to add more features and more images/video to the dash, I have to believe it is resource hungry.

But that doesn't matter since the dashboard is not running when playing games, though RAM is set aside? The guide on the other hand needs to remain lean for the future.
 

acryllicaltair

Dedicated Member
Feb 24, 2010
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#42
[QUOTE="PS3-The Ultimate Machine, post: 5987742]Well, the ps3's split architecture 256mb gddr3 vram @ 700 MHz and 256mb xdr ram @ 3.2 GHz has worked out pretty good as far as outright graphical omph goes. Just look at Uncharted 3, KZ3, The last of Us etc. Optimization of software tools does wonders, so either way I wouldn't be worried. But we have to remember, that MS aims for the xbox 720 to be a lot more than "just" for games, they're really getting behind augmented reality and integration with the rest of the MS ecosystem, so even if MS has 8 gigs of total ram, it might end up reserving a lot more for OS/Kinect 2.0.

But seriously, this is all pointless until MS and/or Sony do their reveals.[/QUOTE]Only if inect 2.0 is implemented across all titles, and even then, if you have 8GB and someone else is working on 4GB, there will still be more to go around for game development
 

acryllicaltair

Dedicated Member
Feb 24, 2010
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#44
[QUOTE="Foraeli, post: 5988134]4GB is more than enough. If it was 2GB however I would scream bloody murder. But 8GB would be better in the long run.[/QUOTE]

it should be, but not if MS goes with more than that. The Wii U is in its own market, Sony needs to run S close in terms of tech, and what that manifests itself in terms of games
 

Itachi

Forum Sage
Nov 13, 2010
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Winterfell
#45
Word is sony started earlier on the next gen console so they had to use older GPU as a base for customization. Hence the HD7000 vs HD8000 in orbis and Durango respectively. Not like there's much difference in actual performance. Orbis is said to have 50% more compute units so if this is true, I don't see how xb3 can make up for that just by having 8000 series

Both have their share of custom parts though and every 'insider' thinks that both devices will be very close to each other
 
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Dec 10, 2005
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drgf.notlong.com
#46
[QUOTE="itachi73378, post: 5988151]Word is sony started earlier on the next gen console so they had to use older GPU as a base for customization. Hence the HD7000 vs HD8000 in orbis and Durango respectively. Not like there's much difference in actual performance. Orbis is said to have 50% more compute units so if this is true, I don't see how xb3 can make up for that just by having 8000 series

Both have their share of custom parts though[/QUOTE]

Well. If true they are utilizing AMD APU with 4 cores and 2 core pairs possibly Jaguar/Steamroller mix or all AMD Steamroller cores while Xbox 720 uses AMD Jaguar cores. It looks like role reversal from last generation CPU wise. If Xbox 720 utilizes 8 cores it will likely be dedicating them in a way that Sony did with SPUs for specialized tasks. If Sony is using Steamroller it will hold much more compute power than AMD Jaguar cores. Basically as General purpose Computing like the way Microsoft did the Xbox 360 CPU. Strange world right? I wouldn't mind seeing Sony use two APUs if they were part Jaguar part Steamroller they could measure out to 8 cores and still give greater compute. Well to me if there was a quad core Jaguar and Quad core Steamroller APU it equates out to 8 cores and would provide that extra 50 % compute. Likely with Jaguar cores doing all the background OS work with Steamroller APU doing all the game stuff. :)

Never know really. This generation coming up has so many combinations that could happen with tech that its a little funny to see.

There is also rumor of a co-processor in one if not both consoles. ARM or IBM PowerPC setup wouldn't be impossible to see along side AMD/IBM products. Both have agreements to build ARM devices. Could be a reason for that context switching patent Sony filled. Say offload the OS workload onto ARM, IBM, or Cell CPU in the background. I believe Sony plans on having Cell tech in PS4, but maybe not as the main processor. Possibly as a co-processor or for PS3 full compatibility mode or both. At least that is what that patent made it sound like to me.

XDR has a new type of memory that utilizes DDR3 slot. Performs like GDDR5 with more speed than typical DDR3 and proposed DDR4 data speeds. This could be dropping into it as well. So never know. RAM in 99% of cases is cheap. If its not its new RAM tech. Even so its not to bad. 8 GB would not at all be impossible.

Sony likely aimed to be the best so they are aiming for tech right off the tech line up for 2013. So their plans might be a few months behind Microsoft's, but they will match them up before E3 and final production starts.
 

Itachi

Forum Sage
Nov 13, 2010
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Winterfell
#47
[QUOTE="DeadlyFire, post: 5988169]
There is also rumor of a co-processor in one if not both consoles. ARM or IBM PowerPC setup wouldn't be impossible to see along side AMD/IBM products. Both have agreements to build ARM devices. Could be a reason for that context switching patent Sony filled. Say offload the OS workload onto ARM, IBM, or Cell CPU in the background. I believe Sony plans on having Cell tech in PS4, but maybe not as the main processor. Possibly as a co-processor or for PS3 full compatibility mode or both. At least that is what that patent made it sound like to me.
[/QUOTE]
This is what I wish. Sony spent a 7 years and a fortune building an online ecosystem and a huge library on psn store, doesn't make sense to not carry it over to the next products. Consumers expect to buy something like an Ipad and have their old apps work. The argument that console are not general use tablets is increasingly becoming irrelevant. Sony needs to give all incentives they can for us to buy it since
psOne - cd player
ps2 - dvd player
ps3 - bluray player
ps4 - ???
 
Oct 18, 2006
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#48
[QUOTE="itachi73378, post: 5988171]This is what I wish. Sony spent a 7 years and a fortune building an online ecosystem and a huge library on psn store, doesn't make sense to not carry it over to the next products. Consumers expect to buy something like an Ipad and have their old apps work. The argument that console are not general use tablets is increasingly becoming irrelevant. Sony needs to give all incentives they can for us to buy it since
psOne - cd player
ps2 - dvd player
ps3 - bluray player
ps4 - ???[/QUOTE]

PS4 = BD-XL?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#BDXL



With BD-XL storing 100-128GB of data, I could see this becoming the standard format for 4K Video...and since the H.265 codec is suppose to be about 50% more efficient than the H.264 that makes the BD-XL standard perfect for that purpose! Not to mention giving a game 100-128GB of space to work with helps too!
 
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acryllicaltair

Dedicated Member
Feb 24, 2010
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#49
[QUOTE="itachi73378, post: 5988151]Word is sony started earlier on the next gen console so they had to use older GPU as a base for customization. Hence the HD7000 vs HD8000 in orbis and Durango respectively. Not like there's much difference in actual performance. Orbis is said to have 50% more compute units so if this is true, I don't see how xb3 can make up for that just by having 8000 series

Both have their share of custom parts though and every 'insider' thinks that both devices will be very close to each other[/QUOTE]people are mostly going by floating point, and that is next to useless when determining which console is going to be better at what.

Need to see the details of the GPU's, the RAM, and what the CPU's are going to work at.
The ps4 could be more powerful, but without RAM it could be like this generation where Cell was faster and more powerful but all that advantage was wiped out.

All we know is that Sony is going with an APU, and that MS is going a GPU/CPU direction........until we know what both figure out to be and what MS has done to sort out the bandwidth issues, there is not a lot to go on

As a gamer, it is beneficial that both consoles be evenly matched, dont think we will have to wait long to see where these consoles stand at
 

PS4freak

Counting Mod
Staff member
May 15, 2006
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#53
What the hell is going on here. Are threads rolling together again or did i miss something. I get the durango just not the creepy as finger puppets. Oh the horror.
 
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Oct 18, 2006
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#54
[QUOTE="jj03, post: 5988591]


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD[/QUOTE]

Great...thanks...now I am going to have nightmares for the next few days...
 

D3seeker

Elite Member
Jan 25, 2008
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#55
[QUOTE="DeadlyFire, post: 5988169]There is also rumor of a co-processor in one if not both consoles. ARM or IBM PowerPC setup wouldn't be impossible to see along side AMD/IBM products. Both have agreements to build ARM devices. Could be a reason for that context switching patent Sony filled. Say offload the OS workload onto ARM, IBM, or Cell CPU in the background. I believe Sony plans on having Cell tech in PS4, but maybe not as the main processor. Possibly as a co-processor or for PS3 full compatibility mode or both. At least that is what that patent made it sound like to me.[/QUOTE]
:heart: Can I marry you right now. Someone else who still believes the Cell will live on in PS4.
[QUOTE="MonkeyClaw, post: 5988195]PS4 = BD-XL?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#BDXL



With BD-XL storing 100-128GB of data, I could see this becoming the standard format for 4K Video...and since the H.265 codec is suppose to be about 50% more efficient than the H.264 that makes the BD-XL standard perfect for that purpose! Not to mention giving a game 100-128GB of space to work with helps too![/QUOTE]
BD-XL is a no brainer. Unless they either come up with a new form of optical storage, or pull another deal....

http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/08/beyond-blu-ray-ultraviolet-500gb-optical-discs/

Make nice with Pioneer and we'll have games that go on for months, even years :snicker

BETTER YET they will push holographic discs. Call me crazy but I'm calling it now:lol:
 
Oct 18, 2006
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#56
[QUOTE="D3seeker, post: 5988828]:heart: Can I marry you right now. Someone else who still believes the Cell will live on in PS4.

BD-XL is a no brainer. Unless they either come up with a new form of optical storage, or pull another deal....

http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/08/beyond-blu-ray-ultraviolet-500gb-optical-discs/

Make nice with Pioneer and we'll have games that go on for months, even years :snicker

BETTER YET they will push holographic discs. Call me crazy but I'm calling it now:lol:[/QUOTE]

If they used the Cell for another purpose as well in the PS4 then I could see them doing it (similar to the PS2 and using the PS1 processor) which would be great, but I don't see them putting it in the PS4 just for backwards compatibility! They could technically just make a cheaper 6 core Cell processor for the PS4 since in the PS3 one of the SPU's are already deactivated to increase yield and another is dedicated to the OS (which won't be needed with the PS4) leaving only 6 for gaming. As for the 500GB Ultraviolet discs, I would have thought we would of seen something about that technology at CES, but since we didn't I don't see it happening either...due to the amount of data it can hold and the speed of it I would love to see holographic storage in a game console, but again the technology is still very expensive! In my opinion, I am about 85% positive we will see BD-XL in PS4 and possibly in the Xbox720 as well. As for the Cell in the PS4, I think it is still up in the air on whether they will include it, but I am highly doubting they will because of cost.
 

D3seeker

Elite Member
Jan 25, 2008
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#57
[QUOTE="MonkeyClaw, post: 5988880]If they used the Cell for another purpose as well in the PS4 then I could see them doing it (similar to the PS2 and using the PS1 processor) which would be great, but I don't see them putting it in the PS4 just for backwards compatibility! They could technically just make a cheaper 6 core Cell processor for the PS4 since in the PS3 one of the SPU's are already deactivated to increase yield and another is dedicated to the OS (which won't be needed with the PS4) leaving only 6 for gaming. As for the 500GB Ultraviolet discs, I would have thought we would of seen something about that technology at CES, but since we didn't I don't see it happening either...due to the amount of data it can hold and the speed of it I would love to see holographic storage in a game console, but again the technology is still very expensive! In my opinion, I am about 85% positive we will see BD-XL in PS4 and possibly in the Xbox720 as well. As for the Cell in the PS4, I think it is still up in the air on whether they will include it, but I am highly doubting they will because of cost.[/QUOTE]

Lol. I'm still hoping for down the line (2-4 iteratons in the future) to see one of the two in a Sony console. You say 85% though, 8'm guessing the other 15% at least a faster bd drive?

Sent from the Warlock
 
Oct 18, 2006
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#58
[QUOTE="D3seeker, post: 5988928]Lol. I'm still hoping for down the line (2-4 iteratons in the future) to see one of the two in a Sony console. You say 85% though, 8'm guessing the other 15% at least a faster bd drive?

Sent from the Warlock[/QUOTE]

Yeah, all logic points to a BD-XL drive, especially since Sony was pushing 4K so much at CES. I can see them selling blu-ray movies in 4K resolution on the BD-XL discs and packing in the standard copy of the blu-ray as well similar to the way they do the 3D blu-ray/reg blu-ray and blu-ray/dvd movies. If they for some reason don't include a BD-XL drive in their systems, they damn well better put a 12x blu-ray drive in it!
 

TGO

Ancient
Feb 26, 2006
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purgatory
#59
I prefer PSU's version of this article, it avoids confusion by explaining the half of RAM is faster & more efficient.
my guess is most people will read this and think 720>PS4 when it's actually the other way around
whats more is the rumoured OS usage, which cuts it down to 3GB GDDR5 RAM vs 4GB DDR3 for games