Latest Rumour Suggests PS4 Will Have Half The RAM Of Xbox 720

jj03

Elite Guru
Apr 7, 2007
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#62
So it could be more efficient ram v more but less efficient ram? Lol

Less is sometimes more...

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
 
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Itachi

Forum Sage
Nov 13, 2010
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Winterfell
#63
Despite having 4x the ram of ps360 and having a traditional architecture that is widely understood by devs, Wii U ports barely match the performance of the former consoles.

I'm sure the 40% lower bandwidth of the RAM plays a major role in this. So I guess bandwidth IS essential :p
 

LfCpS3

Master Poster
May 22, 2009
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#64
So far it seems like:

PS4

3.4/5 GDD5 ram for games ( 512 MB for OS)

720


5 GB DDR3 for games ( 3gb for OS is what it is being said, possible it will be lowered with optimisation)

One has a lot better bandwidth(a lot faster, performs better i assume?) and the other just has more ram.
 

mynd

Ultimate Veteran
May 3, 2006
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#65
[QUOTE="LfCpS3, post: 5989227]So far it seems like:

PS4

3.4/5 GDD5 ram for games ( 512 MB for OS)

720


5 GB DDR3 for games ( 3gb for OS is what it is being said, possible it will be lowered with optimization)

One has a lot better bandwidth(a lot faster, performs better i assume?) and the other just has more ram.[/QUOTE]

Are you guys crazy?

NO ONE IS GOING TO BE USING DDR FOR VRAM.

If the 720 has DDR3 in it, it will also have dedicated GDDR, probably 3 in it as well.
 
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LfCpS3

Master Poster
May 22, 2009
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#66
[QUOTE="mynd, post: 5989238]Are you guys crazy?

NO ONE IS GING TO BE USING DDR FOR VRAM.

If the 720 has DDR3 in it, it will also have dedicated GDDR, probably 3 in it as well.[/QUOTE]


I mean to put a G in, my mistake.

This is what i am getting from various other forums and such.
 

mynd

Ultimate Veteran
May 3, 2006
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#67
[QUOTE="LfCpS3, post: 5989243]I mean to put a G in, my mistake.

This is what i am getting from various other forums and such.[/QUOTE]

Well "if" this dual GPU is in it, and each has dedicated access (i.e. split vram), you've effectively doubled it's bandwidth.

It would be a smart way of doing it (especially if the framebuffer is in edram).
 
Mar 24, 2007
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Your House.
#68
[QUOTE="jj03, post: 5989189]So it could be more efficient ram v more but less efficient ram? Lol

Less is sometimes more...

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD[/QUOTE]

Correct its not how big the ram is, its about how wide the bandwith is.
*sigh trying to make dirty puns based on ram, is harder then it seems.
 

mynd

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May 3, 2006
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#69
[QUOTE="Chille, post: 5989252]Correct its not how big the ram is, its about how wide the bandwith is.
*sigh trying to make dirty puns based on ram, is harder then it seems.[/QUOTE]

Unless your being smart about it, like MS did last time using edram to alleviate bottlenecks.

Current "dual" GPU rumors on 720 point to dedicated VRAM (1.5 gb I think) per core.
Now if each core has dedicated access to VRAM (look I have no idea how the hell this would work with splitting workload!) then you could effectively double your bandwidth.

Devils in the detail, but I do know MS have a very keen focus on alleviating bandwidth bottlenecks.
 

J3ff3

Elite Guru
Dec 30, 2006
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#70
[QUOTE="TGO, post: 5989021]I prefer PSU's version of this article, it avoids confusion by explaining the half of RAM is faster & more efficient.
my guess is most people will read this and think 720>PS4 when it's actually the other way around
whats more is the rumoured OS usage, which cuts it down to 3GB GDDR5 RAM vs 4GB DDR3 for games[/QUOTE]

no offense, but you've definitely read this rumour with rose tinted glasses on. 8GB of ram is NOT being knocked down to 4GB for gaming. that is ridiculous, even if kinect is factored in (which may well be entirely separate). not forgetting the rumoured ESRAM. a very believable rumour considering the EDRAM in the xbox
 

J3ff3

Elite Guru
Dec 30, 2006
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#71
[QUOTE="itachi73378, post: 5989208]Despite having 4x the ram of ps360 and having a traditional architecture that is widely understood by devs, Wii U ports barely match the performance of the former consoles.

I'm sure the 40% lower bandwidth of the RAM plays a major role in this. So I guess bandwidth IS essential :p[/QUOTE]

hence the ESRAM

all the specs i've seen with this ram included come out pretty similar bandwidth wise, with the ps4 still slightly ahead.

oh and the corridor vs sandbox argument is bollocks too.
 

Itachi

Forum Sage
Nov 13, 2010
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Winterfell
#72
[QUOTE="J3ff3, post: 5989263]hence the ESRAM

all the specs i've seen with this ram included come out pretty similar bandwidth wise, with the ps4 still slightly ahead.

oh and the corridor vs sandbox argument is bollocks too.[/QUOTE]

yet still such crappy ports :snicker
its also the weak CPU i guess
 

D3seeker

Elite Member
Jan 25, 2008
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#73
Lets not forget, it is the amount of ram which is why the PS3 lacking in certain feature that have been demanded, an the ram the PS3 IS using IS faster than that of the 360. Of course I'm no computer tech or programmer so if we figure either way 4 being the magic number where all possibility can come to be whether the ram be fast as lightning or as abundant as the ocean, or both than sounds like we'er talking the same story only bigger numbers, and we really have to wait and see late in the gen what stifles creativity (if they become creative again)
 

J3ff3

Elite Guru
Dec 30, 2006
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#74
[QUOTE="D3seeker, post: 5989364]Lets not forget, it is the amount of ram which is why the PS3 lacking in certain feature that have been demanded, an the ram the PS3 IS using IS faster than that of the 360. Of course I'm no computer tech or programmer so if we figure either way 4 being the magic number where all possibility can come to be whether the ram be fast as lightning or as abundant as the ocean, or both than sounds like we'er talking the same story only bigger numbers, and we really have to wait and see late in the gen what stifles creativity (if they become creative again)[/QUOTE]

its not unbelievable to think that you could max out 3 gig in the future (i think some current PC games get to around 2, and conversely, the 720 has less bandwidth. so they both could have future, but distinct, limitations.

i'm talking well down the line though...
 

TGO

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Feb 26, 2006
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#75
[QUOTE="J3ff3, post: 5989369]its not unbelievable to think that you could max out 3 gig in the future (i think some current PC games get to around 2, and conversely, the 720 has less bandwidth. so they both could have future, but distinct, limitations.

i'm talking well down the line though...[/QUOTE]

Games like BF3 have just over 800mb usage, thats with max setting with the exception of a few things to keep it 1080p @60fps putting everything on ultra would push it over a gig, but performance suffers
Sent via Codec
 

Itachi

Forum Sage
Nov 13, 2010
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Winterfell
#76
[QUOTE="J3ff3, post: 5989369]its not unbelievable to think that you could max out 3 gig in the future (i think some current PC games get to around 2, and conversely, the 720 has less bandwidth. so they both could have future, but distinct, limitations.

i'm talking well down the line though...[/QUOTE]

Comparing memory usage of PC games to console games isn't the way to go. Arguably the best open world game of last gen GTA SA was running on 32mb RAM on ps2. Similarly all console games are optimized to achieve equal or better results than PCs for less memory
 
Dec 23, 2010
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#77
[QUOTE="LfCpS3, post: 5989227]So far it seems like:

PS4

3.4/5 GDD5 ram for games ( 512 MB for OS)

720


5 GB DDR3 for games ( 3gb for OS is what it is being said, possible it will be lowered with optimisation)

One has a lot better bandwidth(a lot faster, performs better i assume?) and the other just has more ram.[/QUOTE]


I'm sorry, but anyone who believes that the next-gen Xbox will use the exact same RAM found in the 360 is fooling themselves. The GPU won't even run with that low speed RAM. GDDR3 isn't even in production anymore outside of the 360, and hasn't been for years. GDDR5 released in 2008 and has been the standard graphics RAM every since. Even sub-$100 budget PC cards have GDDR5 these days.
 

TGO

Ancient
Feb 26, 2006
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#78
[QUOTE="Completely Average, post: 5990258]I'm sorry, but anyone who believes that the next-gen Xbox will use the exact same RAM found in the 360 is fooling themselves. The GPU won't even run with that low speed RAM. GDDR3 isn't even in production anymore outside of the 360, and hasn't been for years. GDDR5 released in 2008 and has been the standard graphics RAM every since. Even sub-$100 budget PC cards have GDDR5 these days.[/QUOTE]

it's DDR3 not GDDR3 that the 360 has
PS4 is said to have GDDR5 & 720 DDR3
 

mynd

Ultimate Veteran
May 3, 2006
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#79
[QUOTE="TGO, post: 5990375]it's DDR3 not GDDR3 that the 360 has
PS4 is said to have GDDR5 & 720 DDR3[/QUOTE]

"If" this thing has dual GPU, Id imagine there will be dedicated GDDR5 for the vram.
Isn't the rumour 1.2 or 1.5 gb of VRAM per GPU unit.
That would 3gb GDDR5+5gb O/S

Which gels as far as I'm concerned with logic and these stupid rumors of the OS using 3gb.
Which I don't think it does, I just think people are assuming that when they see 8gb of ram, 5gb main memory for games, they thinking 3gb reserved.
It probably 3b vram.

That's how my imaginary console would roll :)
 
Dec 23, 2010
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#80
[QUOTE="TGO, post: 5990375]it's DDR3 not GDDR3 that the 360 has
PS4 is said to have GDDR5 & 720 DDR3[/QUOTE]

You're wrong about the Xbox 360.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/xbox360-memory,1798.html

And I know the PS4 is said to have GDDR5. I don't doubt it will. That is the standard RAM type used with ALL current GPUs in production.

What I do doubt is anyone claiming the next-gen Xbox will be using obsolete RAM that hasn't been in production for almost 4 years now outside of the current Xbox 360. It sounds like a Sony fanboys fantasy. Well, dream on, because it's NOT going to happen. ATI would have to create a whole new memory management system for their GPUs to make it work.



[QUOTE="mynd, post: 5990379]"If" this thing has dual GPU, Id imagine there will be dedicated GDDR5 for the vram.
Isn't the rumour 1.2 or 1.5 gb of VRAM per GPU unit.
That would 3gb GDDR5+5gb O/S
[/QUOTE]

That would almost be believable, if you assumed that MS was going to ditch the Unified Memory Architecture which they've used for 2 generations now. However, considering that was a real strongpoint of the 360, I don't see that happening.

I'm willing to bet the whole GDDR3 rumors are based on old Alpha dev kits which use old off the shelf hardware. I'm also willing to bet that explains the 8GB total and 3GB for OS rumors as well, debug kits almost always have twice the RAM of the final console with a huge amount reserved for debugging tasks which would explain the OS footprint.
 
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May 20, 2008
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#83
Given a choice i would rather have more slower RAM than faster RAM(if this is all true). I think when it's all said and done both consoles will be plenty powerful but if xbox has the RAM advantage it just may edge out the PS4.
 

MATRIX 2

Forum Sage
Jul 29, 2005
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#85
You guys do realize that the GDDR3 currently used in the 360 has a similar bandwidth to DDR3 -1600 MHz memory right?

Based on what MS did with the 360, it would be foolish to assume that they would use memory with essentially no improvement over what was used in the 360 instead of GDDR5 which is a significant improvement.
 

Vulgotha

Power Member
Jan 6, 2007
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#86
I think its pretty much confirmed they're sticking with DDR3. To alleviate the bandwith problem they have 32MB of ESRAM.

That's it.

They may or may not be using a wider bus for the DDR3, I dunno.

Number thrown around alot is like 62GB\s of bandwidth though for the memory, not including ESRAM bandwidth.
 
S

Soldier 95B

Guest
#87
[QUOTE="Completely Average, post: 5991717]You're wrong about the Xbox 360.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/xbox360-memory,1798.html

And I know the PS4 is said to have GDDR5. I don't doubt it will. That is the standard RAM type used with ALL current GPUs in production.

What I do doubt is anyone claiming the next-gen Xbox will be using obsolete RAM that hasn't been in production for almost 4 years now outside of the current Xbox 360. It sounds like a Sony fanboys fantasy. Well, dream on, because it's NOT going to happen. ATI would have to create a whole new memory management system for their GPUs to make it work.





That would almost be believable, if you assumed that MS was going to ditch the Unified Memory Architecture which they've used for 2 generations now. However, considering that was a real strongpoint of the 360, I don't see that happening.

I'm willing to bet the whole GDDR3 rumors are based on old Alpha dev kits which use old off the shelf hardware. I'm also willing to bet that explains the 8GB total and 3GB for OS rumors as well, debug kits almost always have twice the RAM of the final console with a huge amount reserved for debugging tasks which would explain the OS footprint.[/QUOTE]

Better stated than I could have.
 

MATRIX 2

Forum Sage
Jul 29, 2005
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#88
[QUOTE="Vulgotha, post: 5991879]I think its pretty much confirmed they're sticking with DDR3. To alleviate the bandwith problem they have 32MB of ESRAM.

That's it.

They may or may not be using a wider bus for the DDR3, I dunno.

Number thrown around alot is like 62GB\s of bandwidth though for the memory, not including ESRAM bandwidth.[/QUOTE]

I find that hard to believe since the fastest DDR3 memory (DDR3-3000) tops out at 24GB/s.

And seeing as DDR4 will be coming to consumer platforms in 2014, it would be rather shortsighted of MS not to use GDDR5.
 

Itachi

Forum Sage
Nov 13, 2010
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Winterfell
#89
Without the bandwidth of GDDR5, the 7xxx or 8xxx series GPUs stop being 7xxx or 8xxx GPUs so what's the point of using them?
MS better have some plan or else 720 will suffer
 
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mistercrow

Ultimate Veteran
Nov 10, 2007
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#90
[QUOTE="Completely Average, post: 5991717]You're wrong about the Xbox 360. http://www.tomshardware.com/news/xbox360-memory,1798.html And I know the PS4 is said to have GDDR5. I don't doubt it will. That is the standard RAM type used with ALL current GPUs in production. What I do doubt is anyone claiming the next-gen Xbox will be using obsolete RAM that hasn't been in production for almost 4 years now outside of the current Xbox 360. It sounds like a Sony fanboys fantasy. Well, dream on, because it's NOT going to happen. ATI would have to create a whole new memory management system for their GPUs to make it work. That would almost be believable, if you assumed that MS was going to ditch the Unified Memory Architecture which they've used for 2 generations now. However, considering that was a real strongpoint of the 360, I don't see that happening. I'm willing to bet the whole GDDR3 rumors are based on old Alpha dev kits which use old off the shelf hardware. I'm also willing to bet that explains the 8GB total and 3GB for OS rumors as well, debug kits almost always have twice the RAM of the final console with a huge amount reserved for debugging tasks which would explain the OS footprint.[/QUOTE] This is the most sensible post in this entire thread.