Playstation Portable 2 - Will you buy one?

Bitbydeath

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#33
I'll get it eventually but i doubt it'd be this year.
Most of my money will be going towards paying for my wedding.
 

Acid Snake

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Sep 7, 2008
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#34
[QUOTE="DarkVincent07, post: 5415930]Um lol what? Where did you get PS2 games from? Like do you think they are going to put them on the store like all the PS1 titles?[/QUOTE] I just want to be able to play ps2 games on this. That will be one of the biggest reasons for me to buy one.
 

Vulgotha

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Jan 6, 2007
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#39
Absolutely I will. So long as it doesn't carry a 400$ price tag. Even 350$ would be pushing it..

I probably won't get it day 1 just to avoid the crazy rush, unless I get it on Amazon.
 

Ryunosuke

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Jul 3, 2005
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#41
[QUOTE="Vulgotha, post: 5415983]Absolutely I will. So long as it doesn't carry a 400$ price tag. Even 350$ would be pushing it..

I probably won't get it day 1 just to avoid the crazy rush, unless I get it on Amazon.[/QUOTE]

I was just wonder, but what features on the PSP2 could potentially drive up the price of the PSP2 to be $400 or more? Is the price of the 3DS giving the appears that the PSP2 costs more to make than it actually does? Even though the 3DS is selling for $250+ Nintendo has stated that not only are they selling the device at a profit, but that they are selling it at a premium.

Keep in mind that Sony usually sales a new Playstation console/handheld at a lose and I believe they stated that they plan to do the same with PSP2.

Would the 5' OLED screen drive up costs anymore than the backlit 3.53' Autostereoscopic and 3.03' LCD screens the 3DS has? Could the CPU/GPU in the PSP2 cost so much more than the ones in the 3DS that Sony would have to sale the device at $400 or more?

I don't know how much something like 3G would be to add to a device, but it seems Sony is going to offer a version without it. Perhaps I am overlooking it, but I don't see anything else that would really drive up costs that much. This isn't the same case as with the PS3 where Sony had billions invested in the Cell processor and Blu-ray.

$400 would also be within $100 of what they priced the PS3(20GB) at launch. I don't think the cost to manufacture the PSP2 will be anywhere near as much as it did with the PS3.
 
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ddPLaNeT

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Apr 7, 2008
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#42
I'm buying a NGP day one ! no question. I was impressed with the product overall.

Nice to see Sony coming back fierce with a classy product, incredible graphics, tons of cool functionalities, psn support, trophys, touch screen + touch in the back for lots and lots of very creative games... If priced correctly, i think Sony have a great product on their hands. I saw a couple of trailers with killzone, uncharted, lbp... on a portable system looking like PS3 games made my jaw drop.

I'm sold !
 

Bitbydeath

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#43
[QUOTE="Ryunosuke, post: 5416000]Perhaps I am overlooking it, but I don't see anything else that would really drive up costs that much.[/QUOTE]

Two cameras + touch screen backplate + PS3 Power

No idea what the price will be but Sony had said that they plan to profit off it day 1 and they expect it to be in a different market to the 3DS due to it's power which leads to me think they will not be looking at the 3DS pricing.

Then again 3DS is a device that can display 3D without glasses so i would expect that to come with a hefty price tag on its own.
 

DarkVincent07

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#44
[QUOTE="Bitbydeath, post: 5416008]Two cameras + touch screen backplate + PS3 Power

No idea what the price will be but Sony had said that they plan to profit off it day 1 and they expect it to be in a different market to the 3DS due to it's power which leads to me think they will not be looking at the 3DS pricing.

Then again 3DS is a device that can display 3D without glasses so i would expect that to come with a hefty price tag on its own.[/QUOTE]

I spoke to some people at GAME and currently the 3DS full pre-order price is $400, which is insane since it looks so much less impressive than the NGP... So hopefully that will come down, if not NGP will be prrettyyy damn expensive
 

Ryunosuke

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Jul 3, 2005
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#46
[QUOTE="Bitbydeath, post: 5416008]Two cameras + touch screen backplate + PS3 Power

No idea what the price will be but Sony had said that they plan to profit off it day 1 and they expect it to be in a different market to the 3DS due to it's power which leads to me think they will not be looking at the 3DS pricing.

Then again 3DS is a device that can display 3D without glasses so i would expect that to come with a hefty price tag on its own.[/QUOTE]

The 3DS has 3 cameras and a touch screen. It is probably cheaper for Sony to have the cameras than it is for Nintendo due to Sony manufacturing digital cameras, sensors, etc.

I don't believe the touchpad on the back is that expensive of a technology and near PS3 level power isn't really that expensive these days. A price tag of $400 would be nearly as much as the PS3 was in 2006 when it launched, I doubt it would be priced that close to the original price of the PS3.

I could have sworn I read somewhere where Sony stated they would be selling it at a loss, but he doesn't necessarily is going to be sold at a profit. It appears Sony is introducing a new memory stick format to use with the PSP2. The profit he was talking about could come from selling these and other PSP2 software/accessories/etc..

These 2 quotes make me believe that they do see the 3DS as competition and being vocal about it unlike they did with the PSP(where they stated they were not in competition with the DS).

Andrew House: I can't put a ballpark on it in terms of figures, but I think what I would say is that we will shoot for an affordable price that's appropriate for the handheld gaming space.
Andrew House: Clearly in the dedicated portable space, we will be in competition with 3DS.
[QUOTE="DarkVincent07, post: 5416015]I spoke to some people at GAME and currently the 3DS full pre-order price is $400, which is insane since it looks so much less impressive than the NGP... So hopefully that will come down, if not NGP will be prrettyyy damn expensive[/QUOTE]

The 3DS is $250 in the US. On GAMEs website they have the 3DS for £219.99(~$350), Amazon UK has the 3DS for £202.00(~$320) and there are some places that have it for a little cheaper. Retailers in the UK price the 3DS a lot cheaper and still make a profit. Supposedly Nintendo is only charging retailers £173(~$275) for the 3DS to in the UK.

Edit: Sorry just noticed you are from Australia after ready Bitbydeath post. When you mentioned GAME I assumed UK for some reason.

I guess the above can still be useful to show that retailers mark up the price when they are given the freedom to do so.
 
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Bitbydeath

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#47
The 3DS has 3 cameras and a touch screen. It is probably cheaper for Sony to have the cameras than it is for Nintendo due to Sony manufacturing digital cameras, sensors, etc.
I did not know that.

Ryunosuke said:
I don't believe the touchpad on the back is that expensive of a technology and near PS3 level power isn't really that expensive these days. A price tag of $400 would be nearly as much as the PS3 was in 2006 when it launched, I doubt it would be priced that close to the original price of the PS3.
Hopefully not, i don't even think the touchpad is a great idea to begin with but maybe i'll be proven wrong later. It might be useful as a mouse replacement for games like RTS's but otherwise i don't think it'd be that great to use in a game.

Ryunosuke said:
I could have sworn I read somewhere where Sony stated they would be selling it at a loss, but he doesn't necessarily is going to be sold at a profit. It appears Sony is introducing a new memory stick format to use with the PSP2. The profit he was talking about could come from selling these and other PSP2 software/accessories/etc..
This quote here from the Andrew House interview doesn't really give an answer except that he would like for it to be profitable right off the bat.

Eurogamer: Are you prepared to sell at a loss to do that?

Andrew House: I think ideally we would want to have our hardware be profitable, in addition to our software. We've experienced both sides and we know which one we like to be on!
Ryunosuke said:
These 2 quotes make me believe that they do see the 3DS as competition and being vocal about it unlike they did with the PSP(where they stated they were not in competition with the DS).
It was this quote below that i had been referring too but it could still go either way.

Andrew House: I think that we feel very confident that we have very sufficiently differentiated ourselves from the competition with spec, and in particular the connectivity and network features and interfaces that are all pretty revolutionary. That will set this device apart.
 
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Ryunosuke

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#48
[QUOTE="Bitbydeath, post: 5416032]It was this quote below that i had been referring too but it could still go either way.[/QUOTE]

Looks at the question to that answer.

Eurogamer: But 3DS is, at the end of the day, a fairly high-spec, high-tech, second-generation handheld launching into the market at roughly the same time. It's got to be a close fight.
I could be wrong, but to me it seems that it is being asked what would make a consumer buy a PSP2 over the competition(3DS in this case).

Edit: Found where I read that the PSP2 was going to be sold at a loss. Eurogamer said they were told that Sony will "make a loss" on the PSP2(probably from the same source that told them about the battery life).

Sony has stated that they believe the price of the PS3 was high, they also stated the price of the PSP2 will be affordable. If you consider the two statements, it wouldn't make sense to price the PSP2 near what the PS3 was at launch.
 
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DarkVincent07

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#49
To save multiple quoting, Ryunosuke, that was pretty helpful info. And I also just spoke to a GAME employee on the phone who said the price may come down to $350 AUD
 

Vulgotha

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Jan 6, 2007
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#50
The hardware inside the PSP2 is very potent, even by netbook standards its 'good'. Nintendo marks up their hardware far and away past what it actually costs to manufacture.

And I'm not just talking "reasonable level of profits" high either. So far as I'm concerned they rip people off who are stupid enough to buy anything with the word "Nintendo" stuck on it. In addition to this, they don't seem to treat developers all too wonderful either from what a few people here have let on. Not that I find this overly surprising in any way either.

What would drive up the cost of the PSP?


3G\WiFi\Blutooth components, the 5in OLED touch screen @ 540p, Quad ARM, Quad GPU, Memory (which is, at the very least, 3x more than the 3DS and probably of a higher grade), cameras, touchpad, motion sensing...


In terms of the silicon involved on the performance side of things, you're probably looking at (piece for piece) well over twice the expense. CPU for CPU, GPU for GPU, Memory for Memory.

Another thing to consider is the battery in the PSP2 is probably alot more robust, and those aren't the cheapest things in the world either.

And for the record, no, I don't think a "3D screen with a parallax barrier" warrants a 250-300$ price tag for the 3DS.
 
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Ryunosuke

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#51
[QUOTE="Vulgotha, post: 5416065]3G\WiFi\Blutooth components, the 5in OLED touch screen @ 540p, Quad ARM, Quad GPU, Memory (which is, at the very least, 3x more than the 3DS and probably of a higher grade), cameras, touchpad, motion sensing... [/QUOTE]

The 3DS has a lot of that though or something that could cost just as much.

3 - Cameras
2 - CPUs(?) - One for 3DS games and one for backwards compatibility(hardware emulation)?
1 - 3.53 inch Backlit Autostereoscopic Screen
1- 3.03 inch Backlit LCD Screen
Motion sensing (minus the electronic compass)
WiFi

There will likely be a version of the PSP2 without 3G. Neither Bluetooth or Wi-fi would have that much of a impact on price. I am not certain, but I don't think the touchpad is that expensive of a technology.

It is hard to say how much the memory would cost, memory is pretty cheap. Nintendo could have probably go by with a lot more memory and still made a nice profit on the 3DS, but more wasn't needed for what they are trying to do with the 3DS.

I am sure the CPU and GPU are expensive, but I am just not so sure that it is so much more expensive than the ones in the 3DS that it drives the price of the PSP2 to within $100 or less of what the PS3 was at launch.

[QUOTE="Vulgotha, post: 5416065]And for the record, no, I don't think a "3D screen with a parallax barrier" warrants a 250-300$ price tag for the 3DS. [/QUOTE]

I am talking about the actual manufacturing costs of the units. Would the OLED screen cost Sony more money than what the parallax barrier 3D screen and additional LCD screen does for Nintendo?
 
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Mar 11, 2009
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#52
Both hadhelds will do well in sales.. This E3 is the year of the handheld games.. It should be very fun to watch between Sony and nintendo.. I want both but I'll get the PSP2 first.. This is a win win for gamers..
 
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Vulgotha

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#53
No, they don't "cost just as much". Just because the 3DS is using "CPU's" doesn't mean they're anywhere near as expensive as what the PSP2 is packing.

Even assuming it has a coprocessor which powers the lower screen (ala DS1) older games, and anti piracy measures this does not significantly "Boost" its overall cost. The processor it will likely be using will be an ancient ARM derivative. I'm also not convinced the Camera capabilities on the 3DS will be as powerful as what the PSP2 is offering (in terms of Megapixels).

Regardless, the core components of the PSP2 (It's GPU, CPU, RAM) are considerably more powerful than any of the meager offerings in the 3DS. Those 3 things are what will really bolster the overall cost of the unit. In addition to its extremely nice screen.

People will try awfully hard to justify that 250\300$ mark for the 3DS, but the hardware involved just doesn't total anywhere near enough to warrant it. They charge that much because, shocker, people will pay for it.

Edit: The touchpad may not be overly expensive, or it could be. I'm just not sure. But it does add to the cost. So does BluTooth and 3G- of that you may be certain.


As for the screen question, I'd argue that they're probably similar in terms of total cost or close.
 
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Vulgotha

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#55
What does that have to do with anything? It's using a weak dual core ARM11 clocked at 266Mhz. It might have another single ARM core (that is weaker still) to power the bottom screen just like the original DS line had one to do so and emulate GB\GBA titles.

In fact, I'm not even sure the original DS GPU had to draw the second screen- that may have been the CPU. We also don't know if it will have to draw for both.

Regardless, only one screen is 3D. And that one screen rendering in 3D =/= "rendering two screens", it just means rendering at two lower resolutions and combining the image to simulate a 3D effect in conjunction with the parralax barrier.

The Pica200 GPU is nowhere near as powerful as the PSP2's. Not even close.

I cannot stress enough how vastly overshadowed the 3DS is here. Not even in the same league- it'd be similar to having a middle schooler go in to the gym and attempt to outlift Ronnie Coleman.




Rendering in "3D" is a very intensive process for hardware, but its not as big a workload as doing "split screen" like many of us are used to for local multiplayer.
 
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Ariakace

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Mar 12, 2008
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#56
I voted yes, but thats because i was over-excited. I bought my PSP used for about 3 bucks after trade-ins when i was working at gamestop and i really only used it on my breaks or during down-time at the store (mainly watching movies i otherwise never wouldve watched) but once i quit and got another job i hardly ever used it until i had it hacked with an SNES emulater, and ever since then its pretty much just replaced my big-bathroom reader. So perhaps ill wait until some real games are released for it, unless i can play them on my PS3, in which case theyll probably be on the PSN
 

Ryunosuke

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#57
[QUOTE="Vulgotha, post: 5416121]No, they don't "cost just as much". Just because the 3DS is using "CPU's" doesn't mean they're anywhere near as expensive as what the PSP2 is packing.

Even assuming it has a processor which powers the lower screen (ala DS1) that powers older games, this does not significantly "Boost" its overall cost. The processor it will likely be using will be an ancient ARM derivative. I'm also not convinced the Camera capabilities on the 3DS will be as powerful as what the PSP2 is offering (in terms of Megapixels).

Regardless, the core components of the PSP2 (It's GPU, CPU, RAM) are considerably more powerful than any of the meager offerings in the 3DS. Those 3 things are what will really bolster the overall cost of the unit. In addition to its extremely nice screen.[/QUOTE]

I think we got off my original point. I may not have got it across very good so I will try better in this post.

Even at a $199 price tag I believe Nintendo would still be making a decent profit with the 3DS. However, due to Nintendo selling the 3DS at $249+ it gives off the illusion that it costs more to manufacture than it actually does.

It appears this is what is making some believe the PSP2 is going to have really high price($400+) because the PSP2 will obviously cost more to make than the 3DS. What I am trying to say it that even a price tag of $299 to $349 could still mean that the PSP2 cost a lot more to make than the 3DS (due to Nintendo charging a premium).

I was not trying to suggest the 3DS costs near as much as the PSP2 to make, but that some of the features in the PSP2 may not cost as much as believed. For example, looking at the premium price of the 3DS one may think the cameras, motion sensing and a few other features adds a lot to price(features both the PSP2 and 3DS share).

I was asking if an OLED screen would actually cost that much more than the 2 screens in the 3DS(one being a 3D screen). Since the 3D screen seems to be one of the major factors of why some believe the 3DS ended up costing $249(which isn't the case). Edit: I see that you answer it in one of your previous posts.

I listed the 2 CPU because the extra CPU is a cost the PSP2 doesn't have. I wasn't trying to suggest that the 2 cost more than what CPU does in the PSP2.

Even if the cameras have higher Megapixels than the ones in the 3DS, they shouldn't cost much. I was kinda surprised Nintendo didn't go with higher Megapixel cameras considering how cheap the sensors are.
 
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Vulgotha

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#58
Sorry I definitely misunderstood your post. >_< Derp.

I agree with your assessment of the 3DS in its entirety..


To be honest with you, I think the 3D screen is actually one of the most expensive aspects of the 3DS, in addition to its Pica200 GPU. I believe that it is rather expensive per unit, and that the PSP2 screen is probably in the same ballpark as the total cost of both screens in the 3DS given its size and quality.

But that's just my opinion..

The extra CPU is an additional cost, but it's not much. A quad ARM A9 Cortex is pretty damn fast for a mobile, so even with all of the CPU's in the 3DS tallied together it won't touch the cost of it.

Your conclusion is absolutely correct. I believe a 300$ asking price for the PSP2 is exceedingly reasonable given the hardware. I think a 250-300$ asking price for the 3DS simply prays on the rabid hordes of fans who haven't a single clue what any of the specs mean, and don't care.

I also agree that this is leading people astray in their assessment of the PSP2 and saying it "should cost 400-500" that's nonsensical in this man's opinion. The 300$ mark most accurately reflects the quality of its components as compared to the 3DS's outrageously high mark up.


My prediction: there will be two flavors of the PSP2.
1. Without 3G- 300$
2. With 3G- 350$

^I'm pretty sure the two SKU's are legit based on comments from Sony, so really I'm just giving my 2cents on what the respective asking price will be.


Edit:

Totally unverified remark which should not be taken as a "legitimate estimate": I personally would not be surprised if the 3DS, in total, cost 100-120$ to manufacture and Nintendo is literally hemorrhaging profit per unit.
 
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rbrtchng

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#60
Yeah, I think the PSP2 will be priced at $300-$350. And I probably won't get 3G since everywhere that I play my PSP is someplace with a Wifi connection.