PS3 OS

miickEe

Superior Member
Jan 31, 2006
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#1
I was wondering this beforehand.. is the main operating system in which the Sony PS3 boots on is linux, or will the option of booting to linux (or any other operating system, for that matter) only be available via the additonal harddrive?

Please note that yes, I have searched and from what I've seen there hasn't been a post like this as of yet.. if so I'm sure to find out. xD
 

Ludde

Apprentice
Jan 11, 2006
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#2
Since it probably won't ship with a harddrive, the answer would be no. It'll probably have some slimmed and more customized OS. There have been threads with images speculating what it will look like, so I suggest you do a search for PS3 interface or something. The HDD will probably ship with Linux if you are to believe what has been said, and we can always hope that we'll be able to run other systems on it.
 
Oct 24, 2005
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#4
I was under the impression that, yes, the PS3 will run Linux out-of-the box or with an add-on that will be availible at launch. The PS3 has had enough development time to make this easily possible. I'm excited because that means you'll be able to play Doom III and other Linux compatible games on your PS3! :)
 

miickEe

Superior Member
Jan 31, 2006
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#5
Hrms.. so what sort of functions would the standard OS accomodate? Just the usual playing of games, media etc. If so, I can't wait (if possible) to buy the additional hardrive. :)
 

turkmen117

Elite Guru
Jan 21, 2006
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#6
i have no information about the operative system, whn was it announced, features etc. is there a link i could use to gain some information?
 

Graham

like.no.other
Dec 3, 2005
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#7
Well, it's been said that the HDD will ship with a bootable version of Linux that will run all open-source software, but I find that highly unlikely given how vulnerable it makes the PS3 to hacks and viruses. I could be completely wrong, but I cannot see the PS3 running other systems or any other software for that matter unless they have control over it.
 

Cera

Forum Guru
Jan 16, 2006
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#8
turkmen117 said:
i have no information about the operative system, whn was it announced, features etc. is there a link i could use to gain some information?
There's not much info on the Linux that the PS3 is going to use.

But for Linux in general: http://www.linux.org
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LINUX
It's sort of like a UNIX clone.

miickEe said:
Hrms.. so what sort of functions would the standard OS accomodate? Just the usual playing of games, media etc. If so, I can't wait (if possible) to buy the additional hardrive. :)
Since standard doesn't include a harddrive, it'll probably just be games, movies, music, etc..

The harddrive definitely needs Linux to run.
 

vorian

Superior Member
Sep 14, 2005
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#10
I was under the impression that, yes, the PS3 will run Linux out-of-the box or with an add-on that will be availible at launch. The PS3 has had enough development time to make this easily possible. I'm excited because that means you'll be able to play Doom III and other Linux compatible games on your PS3! Smile
Sony make absolutely no money from this transaction - I strongly doubt Sony would want a PS3 consumer to be playing games that Sony doesn't draw licensing fees from. Developers might as well use Linux on PC's they already own and bypass paying Sony for dev kits and licenses.
 

Jugix

Dedicated Member
Mar 14, 2005
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#12
LiamGray said:
I'm excited because that means you'll be able to play Doom III and other Linux compatible games on your PS3! :)
This was a joke right? You do know that games like Doom3 need x86 compatible processor to work on linux! To use x86 linux software you would need x86 linux and x86 processor!

There are various linux platforms:

PPC linux
x86 linux
a64 linux
alpha linux
MIPS linux

Programs that work on alpha linux only, do not work on x86 linux or PPC linux or vice versa. I hope this clears some misconceptions up!
 

vorian

Superior Member
Sep 14, 2005
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#13
Linux grew from UNIX. UNIX came from the Bell Labs in the US. Bell Labs gave out the UNIX source code to universities for free. Companies like AT&T used it and NASA was also a big supporter of the platform.

There certainly are pro's for Linux(it's free, security) and there are also cons. If you run a small business, changing wholesale to Linux can be tricky and at the end of the day, futile as the pay-offs at the end aren't really worth it.

I recently looked into changing over a Nuendo/VSTi recording sequencer to Linux instead of upgrading to Vista. All of the software is not supported in the current Linux kernal. That goes for a lot of the hardware as well. I could pay a couple of computer engineers $$$'s to do the upgrade but I would still have to pay them for support after the fact.

I set the whole thing up 2 years ago as a XP Studio with no outside help and have had no major problems or need for support thus far - touch wood.

I could use Linux compatible sequencers like Ardour but having looked into the package its like going back to the dark ages...

There are some software applications that need heavy dollar investment by the developer/publisher - something Linux can never provide.
 
Nov 4, 2005
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#14
The IBM tools for servers is Linux based, the HD's used system is Linux, and the sony tools made available is Linux, so i guess the gameOS is linux, too.

Remeber, TIVO i belive runs linux too. Exept free software foundation want to make encryption with GNU software and in linux liscence(to stop tivo using Free software to earn money by using it as other commercial ones), and stop all encrypted usage, linux is used as an doable OS since its free, and can be encrypted, id expect the OS using same method as blueray encryption, and be really non modifiable.

Parts of the toolkits sony use, the linux part, will soon become illegal to be used with an blueray, the GCC toolchain seems to be relicenced to GPLv3, forbidding secret encryption, so i really expect trouble for linux in PS3 now.
 

vorian

Superior Member
Sep 14, 2005
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#15
There are various linux platforms:

PPC linux
x86 linux
a64 linux
alpha linux
MIPS linux

Programs that work on alpha linux only, do not work on x86 linux or PPC linux or vice versa. I hope this clears some misconceptions up!
This is exactly what I am talking about - it's not all roses over at Penguin HQ...
 
Jan 5, 2005
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#16
ps3 will have a OS and you are for sure going to see Homebrew games or it and othere tool like the psp. it's just a matter of time before it happens.
 

HiX

Dedicated Member
Sep 22, 2005
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#17
I wonder how PS3 will run a linux game like Doom 3 if it's possible to install it. I bet there's gonna be driver and compatibility issues.
 

vorian

Superior Member
Sep 14, 2005
861
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#19
ps3 will have a OS and you are for sure going to see Homebrew games or it and othere tool like the psp. it's just a matter of time before it happens.
I can see your point as this is great with a hacked PSP/xbox etc...but Sony and its publishers would make a lot more money if those apps were distributed and paid for via a LIVE like service.

Your homebrew apps/games have to be downloaded to a PC anyway - then ftp'd or burnt to a disc.

Wouldn't you rather turn on your PS3 and d/l the software(bug tested/certified etc) form Playstation Central?

I wonder how PS3 will run a linux game like Doom 3 if it's possible to install it. I bet there's gonna be driver and compatibility issues.
I would rather games and apps that target RSX/CELL specifically - built from the ground up. It's bad enough these days with the reliance on platforms like Renderware. The best outcomes are when devs/engineers code to the 'metal' and don't use middleware...
 
Jan 5, 2006
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#21
The PlayStation 3 has different layers handled by Cell.

1. PS3 OS is a more lowlevel operating system, that is used by developers. This has nothing to do with Linux.

2. There's also a guest layer, where a full fleshed OS can reside, i.e. Linux or other OS'es. In fact, it can run more than one OS in this layer at once.

Layer 0 is only being used by the Cell itself - memoryhandling etc...
 

n00body

Superior Member
Dec 13, 2005
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#22
Cell is not like that. Application programs can no longer directly access the hardware; instead they will have to be written in high-level, object-oriented language. That was done for security reasons: If processors of high performance and wide bandwidth like the Cell were linked together without sufficient security, a worldwide system crash could occur with one attack.

The big feature of the processor is that multiple operating systems run on it. From the beginning, I wanted multiple operating systems to run on the processor simultaneously.

The Cell processor has a kernel called Level 0 at the bottom. This level is not disclosed and is kept secure. Level 1 handles operations close to the kernel, such as scheduling, the real-time kernel and device drivers. Level 2, which we call the guest OS layer, is for general-purpose operating systems such as Linux and PC OSes and operating systems for the Playstation. All operating systems and applications run on Level 2 or higher. Programmers can concentrate on their targeted area of concern without worrying about other operating systems.
For PS3's creator, this isn't a game

There you have it, the PS3 will have three OSes running on the Cell that each have a specific purpose. Levels 1 & 2 will be of the greatest importance for Devs. Level 1 will be for optimizing performance, since it utilizes a Real-Time OS for specifically scheduled tasks. Level 2 will be for UI integration, as it is most likely running an OS geared towards handling user interactions and applications. This division of labor will be good for the Cell system as it allows one OS to specialize in handling user input, while the other is aimed strictly add handling system level processes efficiently.

Further Reading:
Real-time operating system
Device Driver
 

miickEe

Superior Member
Jan 31, 2006
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#23
I do think it's a good move on Sony's part to provide linux with their harddrives, now I can screw around in a linux environment without screwing around with my partition table! xD Tooooooooooo many problems I have had with linux, but that may have come by my inexperience.
 

fis

Superior Member
Dec 17, 2005
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#24
Sony is expected to offer optional hard drives for the PS3 with potential memory capacity of 80 or 120 GB. It remains to be decided whether the standard version of the PS3 will come complete with a hard drive. The operating system has also yet to be clarified. The integrated Cell processor will be able to support a variety of operating systems (such as Linux or Apple's Tiger).
http://www.sony.co.uk/view/ShowArticle.action?article=1121156666920&site=odw_en_GB

make of it what you will..
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#25
"Sony, IBM, and Toshiba have ported Linux to the Cell processor. IBM’s developerWorks has published a detailed article about the port. Sony’s Kutaragi has said that the PS3’s HDD will come with Linux installed. That way the PS3 will be recognized as a computer."

http://www.ps3blog.net/2005/06/30/ps3-linux/

"Sony is looking into having Linux installed from the start on the PS3 hard disk. Referring to Linux as being "legacy," Kutaragi adds that it's just the start, as with Cell, the operating system runs as an application on top of the basic Cell OS. The presence of the Cell OS allows for multiple operating systems to run on the machine simultaneously, including, of course, Linux, but also making room for Windows and Apple's Tiger OS."

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/624/624046p1.html
 

markyp23

Apprentice
Oct 4, 2005
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#26
I'm sure PS3 will have a decent OS out of the box due to the fact there is a speaker at Devstation dedicated to talking about the OS.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#27
markyp23 said:
I'm sure PS3 will have a decent OS out of the box due to the fact there is a speaker at Devstation dedicated to talking about the OS.
If you are referring to a full blown OS like Linux..Im not so sure that it will be the case.

I think Sony will be providing it separate on the HDD addon ..I think that’s for red tape purposes getting machines across borders as otherwise the console will be deemed as a Computer & probably incur other charges/taxes etc..


Archy
 

esper256

Superior Member
Dec 12, 2005
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#28
The PS3 OS that ships on the hard drive that the PS3 could boot to with no game disc inserted has been somewhat stated / rumored as being Linux.

Every game disc will either include bits for a smaller OS, or it will be present on a flash memory chip inside the PS3 with a smaller OS that all the games will run on. That OS resembles a POSIX operating system in many (but not all) ways. This OS is NOT linux.