PS5 vs. Xbox Series X UPDATED Specs Comparison!!

May 20, 2008
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#31
You don't even know what the thing you quoted is, do you? If they had just gone with DX12.2, would you have still used it in that context?

For reference, here's Nvidia's DX12 page from 2017/18:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/technologies/dx12/

and here's their new page with all new "Ultimate" branding:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/technologies/directx-12-ultimate/

DX is just a dev tool. The end user doesn't even need to know, or care. It's like selling a car and hyping the fact it's got circular tyres by slapping on some buzzword.

If anything, the fact they're trying to market the API (and it seems to be working) is to curtail Vulkan. I imagine you used it as some perceived 'advantage' because they sold it to you as some unified platform - that is highly ironic, since the thing doesn't even work on older windows OS's. Vulkan on the other hand could run on a fridge.

Vulkan is natively cross platform, runs on any OS (that needs some *** attached), open source, supported on all GPU's (a few more **), and, in the few titles that run both API's, performs better. Some newer titles have even gone from DX11 to Vulkan - ignoring DX12 outright.

So as i said, the only ultimate in "Ultimate" is the marketing. It doesn't do anything you wouldn't expect it to do.
I know what DX12 and Vulkan are and I get the marketing stuff with DX.All I'm saying is it doesn't matter what you call it. We know the series x will support it and features like VRS and Raytracing because ms said so. We haven't heard hardly anything from Sony on these features and very little about their backwards compatibility. That's why I said ms has an advantage. You're right ms could of called it DX whatever and I could of just said " the latest version ofdx12" but that doesn't mean it's not noteworthy. It's really not that serious.
 
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Fijiandoce

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Oct 8, 2007
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#32
MS adding branding to the API is entirely superfluous.

That's the point of the box - The Direct X Box

That's literally where it gets its name from.

The thing is supposed to show off DX, so whatever the feature level is currently, you would naturally assume it runs it.

If you are genuinely curious about Sony's API, they run two: One low level, and one higher level (akin to DX). The low level one is what's used when devs don't care to use the built-in functions. For example: they may want to implement their own RT solution, free from the API. This way, you have control over the code from top to bottom. Pretty sure XB do the exact same thing, and you'll have devs that junk the API call, and build their own bespoke functions for the hardware... this in itself would defeat the branding.
 
May 20, 2008
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#33
MS adding branding to the API is entirely superfluous.
That may be true. Maybe for them that name resonates and engages their customers better. I don't know. Its nothing new and really isn't that big of deal. You're dramatizing something that's really trivial. Is it wrong for Microsoft to speak in favor of their own API?

]That's the point of the box - The Direct X Box

That's literally where it gets its name from.
And before that it was called Project Midway. I think most hardcore xbox fans like me know that already.

The thing is supposed to show off DX, so whatever the feature level is currently, you would naturally assume it runs it.
Did my post allude to anything other than that? Supporting the latest Direct X API gave it some advantages. That's really all I said about it.

If you are genuinely curious about Sony's API, they run two: One low level, and one higher level (akin to DX). The low level one is what's used when devs don't care to use the built-in functions. For example: they may want to implement their own RT solution, free from the API. This way, you have control over the code from top to bottom. Pretty sure XB do the exact same thing, and you'll have devs that junk the API call, and build their own bespoke functions for the hardware... this in itself would defeat the branding.
Look, DX 12 Ultimate isn't a huge leap over DX12. I know that, but it does offer some advances in the features I mentioned above. I know sony will be using similar or the same things but right now we don't know the details. They still haven't officially confirmed VRS support, or have they? We know more about their SSD than anything else.
 

Fijiandoce

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Oct 8, 2007
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#35
Some good news:

The AMD Zen mobile parts are performing very favourably against their Desktop counterparts.

Recent leaks show the top end 8c/16t SKU coming in around the desktop 6c/12t 3600.

These things are going to be beast! Can't wait for the next TES game - Hope Bethesda's dark days are behind them tho.
 
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acryllicaltair

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Feb 24, 2010
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#36
No disrespect to Austin (considering what happened to him and all) but, on top of him just reading from a spec sheet, he's not the best source for information. A while back he put out a video and positioned MS alongside Apple, when talking about Google; clearly forgetting that MS gave Win10 out pro bono and all the controversy that surrounded that (and still does). He probs couldn't even tell you what SMT is, for example. Somewhat humorously there's an early video of him beside paul from paul's hardware and the comments were not favourable - dude's come on a bit since tho.

Additionally, DF would probs be the better source, but i've not heard them discuss it (can source if you know where they discuss it). I've heard them discuss the PS5's cpu tho.

I'll put it this way however; x86 is not a prolific gaming cpu (you'd probably do better with an arm based RISC one tbh. you really don't need a cisc instruction set for gaming). when the manufacturers get the chip designs, any instructions that they aren't going to use for gaming, get junked.
I've already provided the spec sheet from intel on how AVX2 affects the core clocks, so it would be surprising to hear XB does not fluctuate, as that would imply no AVX2 (which would make no sense, the Zen 2 core is 256bit wide anyways, why not use it?)
But the same DF simply goes on with their analysis today and states what we already know; that clocking a GPU higher with no commensurate increase in bandwidth leads to worse scaling across different GPU types.

Same outlet states that they have talked to different developers and at the current moment, they have to throttle the CPU to push GPU at max clocks.
 

Fijiandoce

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#37
But the same DF simply goes on with their analysis today and states what we already know; that clocking a GPU higher with no commensurate increase in bandwidth leads to worse scaling across different GPU types.

Same outlet states that they have talked to different developers and at the current moment, they have to throttle the CPU to push GPU at max clocks.
If this is the one with Richard, i think you've grossly misquoted him there. If you are referring to what he said at the beginning, it's basically what i said earlier: That these CPU's are so far beyond jaguar no dev is going to push them in the short term; and this goes for both consoles. The effect here is the CPU has no work and is waiting on the GPU - so the CPU has no need to run at high clocks. Truth be told, you could probably run these cpu's at 1.6GHz and there'd still be an insanely measurable difference compared to jaguar (this obvs. limits the lifespan tho), and the thing would still not be fully utilized at launch either. I said it before and i'll say it again, the jaguar was shithouse. So glad we're done with them.

As for the GPU clocking, not sure what you're saying in relation? Richard said they hit the quoted clocks, so not sure. There are diminishing returns when overclocking, which Richard wanted to show, but this is kinda known in PC space. I didn't hear him make any note specifically on bandwidth save for it having less effect than the core overclock. If that's the relation?

EDIT:
Should probs take this time for anyone interested that there is also some nice reads around regarding the XB's memory make-up, with people wondering what is going on with the split (coz it does not make sense for unified memory) - People seem to be rallying around the Nvidia 550Ti, and specifically this article from AnandTech: https://www.anandtech.com/show/4221/nvidias-gtx-550-ti-coming-up-short-at-150/2

The take away from Anandtech:
Our primary concern at this point in time is performance, as it’s mathematically impossible to organize the memory in such a way that the card always has access to its full theoretical memory bandwidth. The best case scenario is always going to be that the entire 192-bit bus is in use, giving the card 98.5GB/sec of memory bandwidth (192bit * 4104MHz / 8), meanwhile the worst case scenario is that only 1 64-bit memory controller is in use, reducing memory bandwidth to a much more modest 32.8GB/sec.
I've also seen this discussed by Devs - Software devs, with no relation to gaming sadly. But they also have the same sentiment about the memory split, as the anandtech article.

The consensus seems to be tho that MS is likely going to shift CPU/OS to the slower portion, and any access to the fast lanes will be used for GPU - Effectively capping it out at 10GB for GPU, and the rest for CPU.

I'm gunna put down money and say that when the console refreshes come this goes away! :devilish:
 
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Shingo

Forum Guru
Dec 21, 2011
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#38
With Cerny's presentation, all of "the importance of GPU when it comes to gaming common knowledge" debunked? I would say and most would say, hdd comes far end when building a gaming pc, GPU > RAM > CPU > HDD wasn't it? It feels like "Cell of Sony" that CPU changes "everything in the game" and then does nothing.
 

$Greatness$

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Sep 4, 2009
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#39
I'm gunna put down money and say that when the console refreshes come this goes away! :devilish:
You think they're going to do the mid console thing again? I hope not as that would be complete trash. Regardless of that fact, I'd only buy the OG model of the PS5 since all games would be based on that hardware anyway.
 

Fijiandoce

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Oct 8, 2007
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#40
You think they're going to do the mid console thing again? I hope not as that would be complete trash. Regardless of that fact, I'd only buy the OG model of the PS5 since all games would be based on that hardware anyway.
The Pro and X sold. People bought that crap, so business gunna business.

If you look at what these consoles can do as well, it kinda indicates they're gunna do a refresh as well. The CPU is so far beyond the GPU's - technically the GPU's are amazing, but comparatively, when they get loaded up, they're kinda weak.

On PC, at the moment, the R5 line is pushing (depending on game) 100-120 fps. These GPU's will probs only get 30fps out the gate - but that's expected.
With Cerny's presentation, all of "the importance of GPU when it comes to gaming common knowledge" debunked? I would say and most would say, hdd comes far end when building a gaming pc, GPU > RAM > CPU > HDD wasn't it? It feels like "Cell of Sony" that CPU changes "everything in the game" and then does nothing.
It seems Sony definitely has the more exotic design. So will probably ask more from game designers - this was actually one of the things cerny pointed out; There's no need to design games around choke points where you can empty assets and load in new assets for the next area. The entire game can freely stream in, regardless of what you put on the screen, or what your level looks like.

The issue is, this isn't standard. XB has a more standard design that translates well to PC (for example). In order for this to work for Sony, it needs to be mind blowingly amazing, and easy for devs to implement so that they bite and accept the trade-off that translating it to PC (potentially) will need a bit of a think.
 

Brandon

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Nov 8, 2004
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#41
If Microsoft actually manages to get a bunch of really good exclusives this time they'll be a force to be reckoned with.
 

$Greatness$

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Sep 4, 2009
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#42
The Pro and X sold. People bought that crap, so business gunna business.

If you look at what these consoles can do as well, it kinda indicates they're gunna do a refresh as well. The CPU is so far beyond the GPU's - technically the GPU's are amazing, but comparatively, when they get loaded up, they're kinda weak.

On PC, at the moment, the R5 line is pushing (depending on game) 100-120 fps. These GPU's will probs only get 30fps out the gate - but that's expected.
Fair assessment. They won't get me again that's for fuckin' sure. At the current standing, I have no interest in buying a PS5 at launch anyway. XSX isn't needed since I can get their offerings on PC. But yeah, they can kick rocks on that "Refresh" BS. Won't ever finesse me there again!