Rant: Sick of the purist(elitist) gamer.

Tetsu

Forum Guru
May 6, 2006
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#61
[QUOTE="Lord Arklon, post: 0]Sugoi. I'm still learning myself...after having lived here for nearly 3 years. :lol:

Anyway, I can help you find some good resources if you'd like.[/quote]
Dattebayo!! :lol:

Dude, that would be awesome, I'd be in your debt. The next bunch of stuff I run into, I'll shoot you a PM.

[QUOTE="GunTeng, post: 0]I also like what people would see as casual, but I see them as relaxing. Look at LBP for example, people would mold this as casual, but there will be people who will take it seriously and even become "hardcore" players by designing the best possible enviroment possible taht gives them the most enjoyment when playing.
This also touches on Seebs comment and backs it up somewhat.[/quote]
While I quibble about labels causing as much harm as good, as we just need some kind of tags for things to know what to do with them, this caught my eye. I will have to reiterate some stuff at the risk of sounding like an utter Sony fanbot.

With the Wii and 360, mostly I was disappointed in them. I watched games coming out for the 360 for a year, and waitedfor something to catch my interest. And waited. And waited. I finally bought an XBox and Forza 1. I thought the Wii was much, MUCH more powerful than it was when Nintendo was unveiling it bit by bit. I was enthusiastic about it. Ultimately I was about all three systems. But then I found out the Wii was basically an overclocked GameCube, and deflated. All this time, I'd hyped it as something almost good enough to recreate 360 graphics. For carping's sake. And only a few games from each lured me: Bioshock, Alan Wake and Naruto, and Metroid and... something else for the Wii. :lol:

The games which caught me off guard the most, and there were a number of them, were PS3 games. Lair, Heavenly Sword, Motorstorm, all three I thought of as meh games. Until I saw video footage. Little Big Planet is a great example. When I saw that demo back in E3 Phil was hosting, I just cringed. "What the heck is this?? Oh great, we can all have fun making muppet villages." And then all that changed when they went into the game itself. Woah. The same for Home. My eyes were opened.
 

kryton101

Dedicated Member
Sep 12, 2006
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#62
[QUOTE="GunTeng, post: 0]

In all I think labels should be scrapped. They are misleading & a poor description of most games as far as I am concerned.
Say what you really think and stop trying to mold things into perfect little nutshells.
What you think or what you feel about a game is not wrong, but using a label that doesn't justify a game is wrong.[/quote]

Agreed. While gaming is an extremely scientific and precise thing in nature being made up of numbers and lines of codes the output is inherently artistic by interpretation and the involvement in many cases provocative and emotional.

On the other hand many of us love our 'labels' to help define who we are in society as a whole. Gamers in particular have been fed the clean cut label directive including titles such as: -

1/ Warrior
2/ Medic
3/ Thief
4/ Mage

It's little wonder we feel comfortable with lumping the whole community into just one of two groups!

Why not just black and white and be done with it? The current trend we seem to have as society as a whole is moving towards an absolute right and wrong mentality. While neither the terms casual or harcore have anything to do with right or wrong in that sense they to me at least are used in too much of a casual way without any real thought as to what we are actually trying to say. Describing the gaming entire gaming community in that way is like using a sledge hammer to crack open a nut.
 

seebs

Elite Sage
Dec 29, 2006
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#63
Every time someone proposes a division of gamers into two categories, I end up fitting both of them a little. :)
 
Sep 5, 2006
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#64
[QUOTE="seebs, post: 0]Every time someone proposes a division of gamers into two categories, I end up fitting both of them a little. :)[/QUOTE]
That's the thing...in many ways we all do. An elitist may fail to see that, always trying to shoehorn someone as one or the other, and often times many people succumb to the same thing.
 

RaceworX

Superior Member
Oct 26, 2007
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#65
well grese me up and shoehorn me into any box that you want to cos im having to much fun to care... bring back the days of enjoying somthing because you do and hating somthing because you hate it... and let other people do the same!! if some one enjoys playing somthing you feel inferior then let them play it end if the day handle your business and do what we are meant to do with this awsome black box have some friggin fun!!
 
Jul 17, 2007
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#66
[QUOTE="kryton101, post: 0]It's all degrees of seperation which is what you are trying to say I think. Ok, so the season ticket 'may' be hardcore. What about the fan who collects sticker albums, and the one who does that and has signatures from the players. What if you play your sport at a high standard as well? Or play well and dont actually watch it that much. Whose the more qualified in this rabble? Blimey, two labels are looking a bit weak already. Can't quite fit in those boxes.....

The problem is that these labels have no real DEFINED meaning to gaming and more importantly no consensus of agreement except in a very loose and contradictory way in the gaming community. The contrast would be say a political party where by joing say the Labour party or democrats you become a supporter of that party and the goals and defining elements of that party are (in the whole!) clear to all. It's written down and definable.

So are we talking about hours invested in gaming? ability? number of consoles owned? number of games owned? ability to recall obscure technical facts? dont know really. Different things to different people and there in lies the problem. Towards the end of your post you actually use the terms as if I have an agreed standard to define what they are? (Which I dont so I dont know what you mean,...devils advocate..)

At the end of the day we are just a bunch of 20 to 30 year old blokes sitting on our tods at home playing games. I'd love to know where these terms were first used and why and in what context?

Today, I am going to be mostly Hardcore.......[/quote]
I think it's all about perception, really. It's how we see ourselves and how others see us. For example, I would consider myself a casual gamer. But at the same time, I can guarantee you, my fiance would consider me hardcore.
 
Sep 5, 2006
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#67
[QUOTE="FPS Fanatic, post: 0]I think it's all about perception, really. It's how we see ourselves and how others see us. For example, I would consider myself a casual gamer. But at the same time, I can guarantee you, my fiance would consider me hardcore.[/QUOTE]
See, that's fine though I suppose. Live and let live, right? The problem I have is when people use this stuff as some sort of contrivance to either make themselves feel better, intrude upon others, make excuses, troll, or whatever the case may be.

If you want to classify yourself as something, then that's your deal, but it doesn't work so well when applied to others. It's just not fair. :???:
 
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2Tfps

Guest
#68
I'm a hardcore masturbator. 6+ hrs a day. And graphics means everything to me.

On topic: Those swaying from Graphics and tearing is ruining it. And in the next post saying it graphics doesn't matter is mostly young ones (in my head anyway). That is, nothing to be bothered withactually. Not saying it is annoying. Makes you want to filter the post with words: graphics+PS3+360 in them. I enjoyed Chrono trigger a few months ago. The gfx style suits it still. Disgaea on the PS2 as well. But a sucky game with great graphics is more sucky with less graphics. So it matters too. Saying anything else then they are lying to them selves. And, a great post mentioned music/audio here earlier. It's so much more worth when it's done well than what people give it credit for.
 
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2Tfps

Guest
#70
Maybe that is what they meant with it too? Or are you saying they are going back and forth like mentioned by Lord Arklon?
 

Dr.Drake

Superior Member
Aug 28, 2007
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#71
Your threads are always a delight. I agree completely - visuals are a massive part of all video games, also core gameplay is not the holy grail of gaming. If you hit the way the game controls - well done. However, if it looks like crap compared to similar games you see what they sacrificed to get there. A decent total package is much more appealing than a great but incomplete one to the staggering majority.
 
Jul 17, 2007
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#72
[QUOTE="Lord Arklon, post: 0]See, that's fine though I suppose. Live and let live, right? The problem I have is when people use this stuff as some sort of contrivance to either make themselves feel better, intrude upon others, make excuses, troll, or whatever the case may be.

If you want to classify yourself as something, then that's your deal, but it doesn't work so well when applied to others. It's just not fair. :???:[/quote]
You and I are definately in agreement Lord Arklon.

Btw, I would consider myself a graphics whore for sure. I don't play ugly games anymore. In all honesty, it's the graphics that draw my attention first. If the game meets a certain quality visually, I will delve deeper into other aspects such as, gameplay and story. Collectively, if those aspects strike up a certain level of anticipation, I'll give it a play through, simple as that.
 
Feb 16, 2007
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Okayama
#73
[QUOTE="Lord Arklon, post: 2279590]That's the thing...in many ways we all do. An elitist may fail to see that, always trying to shoehorn someone as one or the other, and often times many people succumb to the same thing.[/quote]

No, see... I think the true gamers are the ones that DO fit into all, or at least more than half of the categories...

Nostalgia buffs
casuals, incl. music gamers
competitive gamers
Experience gamers (MGS and Final Fantasy fans, for instance)
Challenge gamers....
Graphics whores

I'd venture to say that the ones I don't consider gamers at all are those who only play casually, or only play music games, or ONLY dig nostalgia. And you know what, your "PS3 fanatics" BS is what really pisses me off. The gaming world is getting invaded, and the true gamers are going to matter less and less, in favor of the casuals. So, yeah, us "elitist" gamers have a good reason to be distressed by this, as it represents the end of our kind and the end of our passion.

Seeing the way Nintendo has been going, because they managed to rake in the money that way, and by drawing non-gamers, they'll forever be compared unfairly to the other two that will never reach their sales, and people who make games will look at it and say "Oh, these types of games don't make money, AKA these gamers don't give us money, let's cater to the casuals, aka the non-gamers.

So (wow, I didn't realize this was a 'bad' word, I thought it was a euphamism) off with your rant. If you don't think those of us who don't like this trend have a right to be vocal about it, well... I stop caring about now.
 
Sep 5, 2006
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#74
[QUOTE="Dr.Drake, post: 0]Your threads are always a delight. I agree completely - visuals are a massive part of all video games, also core gameplay is not the holy grail of gaming. If you hit the way the game controls - well done. However, if it looks like crap compared to similar games you see what they sacrificed to get there. A decent total package is much more appealing than a great but incomplete one to the staggering majority.[/quote]

Indeed. How many people think God of War would have been what it was without the stellar presentation, unique visuals, and bone crunching animations? Heck, those attack animations in Kratos' combos is a large part of what made the game so viscerally satisfying. GoW is IMO the quintessential representation of how presentation and stunning visuals can affect a game.

Why? That genre has been done to death that's why, and GoW served to inject some serious oomph into it.
 

StateofMind

Elite Member
Oct 28, 2006
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#75
Poorly constructed rants annoy me. So do big, bold paragraphs that don't need to be emphasized. I think I agree with your overall sentiment though.

If a game impresses me enough graphically I can play it for that reason alone, if it doesn't I have to find other reasons to enjoy it (which won't be hard, if the game is good). It's just another element of the game to me, like replay value or length. To say that graphics have no value at all in games is a little absurd, in my opinion. Maybe some find them more important than others, but it seems like too many people have been throwing around the opinion that graphics simply don't matter lately.
 
Sep 5, 2006
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#76
[QUOTE="StateofMind, post: 0]Poorly constructed rants annoy me. So do big, bold paragraphs that don't need to be emphasized. I think I agree with your overall sentiment though.

If a game impresses me enough graphically I can play it for that reason alone, if it doesn't I have to find other reasons to enjoy it (which won't be hard, if the game is good). It's just another element of the game to me, like replay value or length. To say that graphics have no value at all in games is a little absurd, in my opinion. Maybe some find them more important than others, but it seems like too many people have been throwing around the opinion that graphics simply don't matter lately.[/QUOTE]
Well, my apologies. Just the way I do business, no harm intended. :mrgreen: