Rise of the Tomb Raider is not an Xbox One exclusive after all

BBK..

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Oct 19, 2008
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In the 36 Chambers
Why would any rational person care about a petty console war!?

I've always said if you want to properly enjoy a generation of consoles the best way to do that is to own all platforms or at a minimum 2.
 

K2D

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[QUOTE="Two4DaMoney, post: 6371830]
http://eu.square-enix.com/en/blog/note-phil-rogers-ceo[/QUOTE]

That quote makes it sound like SE and MS made a deal long before it became apparent that the PS4 would come out in pole position. (The industry consensus supposedly was that the Xbox 720 already had won the next gen console war.)
I wonder if Squareenix management is kicking themselves right now :p
 
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[QUOTE="BBK.., post: 6371856]Why would any rational person care about a petty console war!?
.[/QUOTE]You sure did stir that pot .
If the shoe was on the other foot, would you be bitching and moaning still?
aka Sony fanboys are just mad. If it was on the ps4 and not the xbone then no one would be complaining.

Yes, you've played a role in this supposed "console war" going on in this thread.

[QUOTE="K2D, post: 6371864]That quote makes it sound like SE and MS made a deal long before it became apparent that the PS4 would come out in pole position. (The industry consensus supposedly was that the Xbox 720 already had won the next gen console war.)
I wonder if Squareenix management is kicking themselves right now :p[/QUOTE]Those quotes sound the opposite to me. They're thanking the fans for their support. Then they claim to want to support more platforms to grow the series bigger.

It's still possible that they made that deal back then though. Like you said, everyone just knew that the 720 was going to crush the competition. There were rumors that EA regretted making the titanfall deal with MS due to the ps4's success.
 
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BBK..

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Oct 19, 2008
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My post was getting at the fact that if it was the other way around and it was exclusive on the PS I hope PS only gamers kicking up a fuss would still kick up a fuss. I guess we will never know how people would react if the shoe was on the other foot. I don't visit XBox forums so I guess If i did I would be saying the same to them if the roles were reversed.

But please tell me, how have I played a role other than to tell people to stop moaning and that it will eventually be out on PS4 and PC as well. Which would both are my platforms of choice over the Xbone. Shit, I'll be buying a PS4 and Wii-U before I even contemplate getting a XBone and even then I still don't care about which console gets timed exclusives first because it is just that - timed​. I'm a patient guy, I can wait it out.
 
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[QUOTE="BBK.., post: 6371880]My post was getting at the fact that if it was the other way around and it was exclusive on the PS I hope PS only gamers kicking up a fuss would still kick up a fuss. I guess we will never know how people would react if the shoe was on the other foot. I don't visit XBox forums so I guess If i did I would be saying the same to them if the roles were reversed. [/QUOTE]
The shoe was on the other foot because sony did the exact same thing with TR2 when Eidos was the publisher. They kept it off of Sega Saturn and Nintendo 64. People were pissed then too but we didn't have the social media thing going at that time. A similar situation happened with Bayonetta going Nintendo only. people were upset but nothing like this.

But please tell me, how have I played a role other than to tell people to stop moaning and that it will eventually be out on PS4 and PC as well. Which would both are my platforms of choice over the Xbone. $#@!, I'll be buying a PS4 and Wii-U before I even contemplate getting a XBone and even then I still don't care about which console gets timed exclusives first because it is just that - timed​. I'm a patient guy, I can wait it out.
Personally, if I was in a situation and a game i considered to be a must have is on a platform i don't own i would go ahead and buy the console. Thats me though.
 

Christopher

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[QUOTE="BBK.., post: 6371851]I'm not sure if your post is directed at me or other people in this thread, Sainraja, but I couldn't care less about the console war. I'm not buying either console just yet and when I do it'll be the PS4 first.

I just think a mountain is being made out of a molehill.


As I said, I'm not a massive fan of the series so perhaps that's why I'm not fussed about this fiasco as others are.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's your opinion. you don't think this is a big deal. Fine. Other's do. How big a deal this is seems to be a mountain-via-molehill of its own.
 

XperienZ

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[QUOTE="Sub-stance1, post: 6371886]The shoe was on the other foot because sony did the exact same thing with TR2 when Eidos was the publisher. They kept it off of Sega Saturn and Nintendo 64. People were pissed then too but we didn't have the social media thing going at that time. A similar situation happened with Bayonetta going Nintendo only. people were upset but nothing like this.



Personally, if I was in a situation and a game i considered to be a must have is on a platform i don't own i would go ahead and buy the console. Thats me though.[/QUOTE]

I keep hearing this same argument about Tomb Raider 2 from everyone that is convinced this shouldn't be made a big deal of... Is that the very latest example you can find? Because I think its a little different to be comparing it to this example for the clear fact that Sony were trying to gain interest in their first console. Now I'm not saying it wasn't a crappy move for gamers as much as this current deal is a crappy move for gamers, but Microsoft are on their third console now and had they done it right they wouldn't even need to pull this kind of deal to get people buying the X-One.

I'm seriously starting to wonder why people can't see that it isn't just about PS fans not getting a game solely because Microsoft paid Crystal Dynamics (and they're far from faultless from a gamers standpoint in all this either) enough money for them to effectively delay its Playstation release, its more about the fact that if Microsoft had used all this money to keep studios like Rare up and running or invested in more of the "less safe" IP's we all know Microsoft like to rely on they wouldn't need to instead rely so much on third party deals and contracts.

I'm not trying to convince people not to support Microsoft if this is the kind of thing they're happy with because i don't actually care what you're playing your games on, but there doesn't seem to be much you can say as purely a gamer in defence of this kind of deal. I'm struggling to think of many advantages actually... Which is why I think people are trying to find out whether the game would have been cancelled if it wasn't for a massive cash injection, the only real excuse anyone could possibly give for this deal being good for us (I equally don't particularly care how good a deal it is for SE or MS or whoever) - and as others are showing I think we would have seen this game anyway, regardless of the deal being made. As I've said before, X-One owners may get a slightly improved version of the game if they're incredibly lucky, but with a timed deal rather than a full exclusive I don't think they'll even get that.

And lets be honest, how many TR fans do you think are realistically going to rush out and get a One just based on this? Enough to justify frustrating (or annoying, if you prefer) millions of people who won't?
 
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[QUOTE="XperienZ, post: 6371924]I keep hearing this same argument about Tomb Raider 2 from everyone that is convinced this shouldn't be made a big deal of... Is that the very latest example you can find? Because I think its a little different to be comparing it to this example for the clear fact that Sony were trying to gain interest in their first console. Now I'm not saying it wasn't a crappy move for gamers as much as this current deal is a crappy move for gamers, but Microsoft are on their third console now and had they done it right they wouldn't even need to pull this kind of deal to get people buying the X-One.[/QUOTE]

Should it matter if it was first or third console? Both deals had the same goal. To keep the game off of the competitors console. Sony used their superior finances against sega and nintendo to land something similar. if you asked me theirs was worse because their deal supposedly kept TR off of other consoles for a few years.



I'm seriously starting to wonder why people can't see that it isn't just about PS fans not getting a game solely because Microsoft paid Crystal Dynamics (and they're far from faultless from a gamers standpoint in all this either) enough money for them to effectively delay its Playstation release, its more about the fact that if Microsoft had used all this money to keep studios like Rare up and running or invested in more of the "less safe" IP's we all know Microsoft like to rely on they wouldn't need to instead rely so much on third party deals and contracts.
Isn't Rare up and running now. Is Rare gone? Did i miss something?

I'm not trying to convince people not to support Microsoft if this is the kind of thing they're happy with because i don't actually care what you're playing your games on, but there doesn't seem to be much you can say as purely a gamer in defence of this kind of deal. I'm struggling to think of many advantages actually... Which is why I think people are trying to find out whether the game would have been cancelled if it wasn't for a massive cash injection, the only real excuse anyone could possibly give for this deal being good for us (I equally don't particularly care how good a deal it is for SE or MS or whoever) - and as others are showing I think we would have seen this game anyway, regardless of the deal being made. As I've said before, X-One owners may get a slightly improved version of the game if they're incredibly lucky, but with a timed deal rather than a full exclusive I don't think they'll even get that.
I guess it all depends on the type of support MS is giving them. Maybe they are lending a hand in the development or maybe TR will support Direct x12. We just don't know for sure.




And lets be honest, how many TR fans do you think are realistically going to rush out and get a One just based on this? Enough to justify frustrating (or annoying, if you prefer) millions of people who won't?
I dont know but we will sure find out next year.
 

XperienZ

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[QUOTE="Sub-stance1, post: 6371996]Should it matter if it was first or third console? Both deals had the same goal. To keep the game off of the competitors console. Sony used their superior finances against sega and nintendo to land something similar. if you asked me theirs was worse because their deal supposedly kept TR off of other consoles for a few years.[/QUOTE]

It matters to a point. I still said it was as lame then as it was now, from what i remember you could still go out and get TR2 on PC if you wanted to so at least that's something. But that wasn't my point, Sony hadn't been in the industry for long and were doing what they could I guess to get their boot in the door. Its why I can understand why Microsoft are doing it now because they've dug themselves into a hole - I just think if they had invested wisely in the previous 2 console generations they've been involved with (you even tend to defend the last one as being "hugely successful" for them) then they'd have other (more ethical?) ways of inciting gamers to their console. Also, if Sony haven't got any more recent examples for you then we can only assume they worked out early on it didn't really work and haven't tried it again or maybe it was just too much expense for too little gain.

[QUOTE="Sub-stance1, post: 6371996]Isn't Rare up and running now. Is Rare gone? Did i miss something?[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry the apparent downfall of Rare to everyone else wasn't as apparent to you - it was only an example though and not the only point I was trying to make. The point is where is the CONTINUED investment in first party studios from Microsoft that would ensure third party didn't become this important to them?


[QUOTE="Sub-stance1, post: 6371996]I guess it all depends on the type of support MS is giving them. Maybe they are lending a hand in the development or maybe TR will support Direct x12. We just don't know for sure.[/QUOTE]

Well lets hope its not just in the form of their wallets then ;)... I'll still find it hard to believe that the game will be a whole lot better for this deal though (just not care enough for all the comparison videos when it inevitably launches for everything else hah).

[QUOTE="Sub-stance1, post: 6371996]I dont know but we will sure find out next year.[/QUOTE]

I think the majority of people already know that the bump in X-One sales just won't justify shutting out such a large number of fans for such little reason. The more I think about it though the less I think people will care about the game the closer it gets to launch - there's just so much that's gonna happen between now and then. I'll probably be thanking the break my wallet gets.
 
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[QUOTE="XperienZ, post: 6372001]It matters to a point. I still said it was as lame then as it was now, from what i remember you could still go out and get TR2 on PC if you wanted to so at least that's something. But that wasn't my point, Sony hadn't been in the industry for long and were doing what they could I guess to get their boot in the door. Its why I can understand why Microsoft are doing it now because they've dug themselves into a hole - I just think if they had invested wisely in the previous 2 console generations they've been involved with (you even tend to defend the last one as being "hugely successful" for them) then they'd have other (more ethical?) ways of inciting gamers to their console. Also, if Sony haven't got any more recent examples for you then we can only assume they worked out early on it didn't really work and haven't tried it again or maybe it was just too much expense for too little gain. [/QUOTE]
You're still making excuses for one and finding fault with the other. MS did it for the same reasons that sony did it. Sony benefitted from the deal and now MS will attempt to do the same. There are plenty more similar deals with 3rd party devs but does it really make a difference? Sony probably won't say much about it publicly because they would come off as being hypocrites.



I'm sorry the apparent downfall of Rare to everyone else wasn't as apparent to you - it was only an example though and not the only point I was trying to make. The point is where is the CONTINUED investment in first party studios from Microsoft that would ensure third party didn't become this important to them?
Downfall? I would hardly say Rare has fallen that low. They aren't the same studio they used to be in the 90s, but then again a lot of studios aren't. SCE London went from making NBA shootout for PS1 in the 90s to singstar and dance party games for ps2 and ps3. Their studio just evolved just like Rare did. Different people different ideas.






I think the majority of people already know that the bump in X-One sales just won't justify shutting out such a large number of fans for such little reason. The more I think about it though the less I think people will care about the game the closer it gets to launch - there's just so much that's gonna happen between now and then. I'll probably be thanking the break my wallet gets.
They arent shutting anyone out. They are saying if you want to play TR in 2015 you will have to play it on xbox one until its released for other platforms. if they really wanted to shut out gamers they could of struck some sort of publishing deal.
 

XperienZ

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[QUOTE="Sub-stance1, post: 6372018]You're still making excuses for one and finding fault with the other. MS did it for the same reasons that sony did it. Sony benefitted from the deal and now MS will attempt to do the same. There are plenty more similar deals with 3rd party devs but does it really make a difference? Sony probably won't say much about it publicly because they would come off as being hypocrites.[/QUOTE]

I think I've explained these "excuses" as best I possibly can. Sony couldn't magic up the first party lineup it has now when they were starting out in the console market, so deals with third party were probably an attractive option. For the third time now AS A GAMER this was entirely counter productive - there's nothing gained from it at all regardless of who does it. The "excuses" I've explained can't apply to Microsoft as readily because they've been in this market a long long time and should have been working up its first party studios to develop its own games people would want to buy a One for. If they had they'd be in a much better position to compete with Sony right now and this deal probably wouldn't need to be made and not only would you as a One owner get to play TR but have something else coming too. I've told you I understand why they did the deal but that still doesn't mean its right and you've still yet to say anything that convinces me this type of thing is in any way better for gamers. Are you genuinely happier to see a game late on Playstation than you would be having that money spent on a new exciting and fully exclusive IP? The argument still isn't so much that you can't play the game if you want to, because you can just get a One, nothing's stopping you... the point is that this money could be FAR better invested in something more constructive to gamers as a whole.

[QUOTE="Sub-stance1, post: 6372018]Downfall? I would hardly say Rare has fallen that low. They aren't the same studio they used to be in the 90s, but then again a lot of studios aren't. SCE London went from making NBA shootout for PS1 in the 90s to singstar and dance party games for ps2 and ps3. Their studio just evolved just like Rare did. Different people different ideas.[/QUOTE]

Then you do concede that they have fallen - just not "that" low? It still proves the point I'm making anyway, SCE London can do what they like while Sony has so many other studios making other kinds of games. I'd argue that switching the focus of so many of MS' first party studios to kinect support has left them chronically short of the variety Sony offers - course, thats fantastic news if you're a different person with different ideas and a massive fan of kinect though again I'd wager you're quite probably in the minority. What you should be wondering is why MS decided that this money was better given to Crystal Dynamics and not any of their first party studios who'd probably love the freedom to make something a little different now the support for kinect is less than they all probably believed it would be so short into this gen. I don't see how Rare are going to restore themselves to 90's standard if MS are showing so little faith in them - and that is pretty sad for gamers, no?


[QUOTE="Sub-stance1, post: 6372018]They arent shutting anyone out. They are saying if you want to play TR in 2015 you will have to play it on xbox one until its released for other platforms. if they really wanted to shut out gamers they could of struck some sort of publishing deal.[/QUOTE]

And I'm saying that it'd be crazy to suggest the majority will be running out to get an X-One to play it early so there really was little reason to exclude fans from playing it on any platform regardless of how long they have to wait. It'll be interesting to see if they rush out to get the game at all once it does finally come out elsewhere.
 
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Does that sound like they didn't gain anything from it? Doesn't sound that way to me.

I keep reading about people saying this money could of been spent on another exclusive IP. Who says they aren't doing that? Thats exactly what it looks like to me. MS has a strong exclusive lineup even without TR. So they added TR to that lineup. A IP that has a huge following and already well established. My excitement for TR has nothing to do with it exclusive to xbox one or late for ps4. Its nothing more than a good business opportunity and and SE took a chance. Its their decision and their IP to do as they please. They have every right to just like any other publisher.



Then you do concede that they have fallen - just not "that" low? It still proves the point I'm making anyway, SCE London can do what they like while Sony has so many other studios making other kinds of games. I'd argue that switching the focus of so many of MS' first party studios to kinect support has left them chronically short of the variety Sony offers - course, thats fantastic news if you're a different person with different ideas and a massive fan of kinect though again I'd wager you're quite probably in the minority. What you should be wondering is why MS decided that this money was better given to Crystal Dynamics and not any of their first party studios who'd probably love the freedom to make something a little different now the support for kinect is less than they all probably believed it would be so short into this gen. I don't see how Rare are going to restore themselves to 90's standard if MS are showing so little faith in them - and that is pretty sad for gamers, no?
I think its fair to say the Rare back then isnt the same Rare we have today, but that doesn't mean they are any less talented. Don't be so quick to count them out. Rare has always been a secretive studio and they may be working on some unannounced titles. We will have to wait and see. They most likely are shifting their focus away from kinect only titles.



And I'm saying that it'd be crazy to suggest the majority will be running out to get an X-One to play it early so there really was little reason to exclude fans from playing it on any platform regardless of how long they have to wait. It'll be interesting to see if they rush out to get the game at all once it does finally come out elsewhere.
Like I said before, They arent excluding. There hasnt been any announcement of TR never coming to ps4. Xbox-one has plenty of other games to entice gamers. Its not just about TR. There will be plenty to play as far as exclusive content.
 

thanatos144

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[QUOTE="Sub-stance1, post: 6372071]Does that sound like they didn't gain anything from it? Doesn't sound that way to me.

I keep reading about people saying this money could of been spent on another exclusive IP. Who says they aren't doing that? Thats exactly what it looks like to me. MS has a strong exclusive lineup even without TR. So they added TR to that lineup. A IP that has a huge following and already well established. My excitement for TR has nothing to do with it exclusive to xbox one or late for ps4. Its nothing more than a good business opportunity and and SE took a chance. Its their decision and their IP to do as they please. They have every right to just like any other publisher.




I think its fair to say the Rare back then isnt the same Rare we have today, but that doesn't mean they are any less talented. Don't be so quick to count them out. Rare has always been a secretive studio and they may be working on some unannounced titles. We will have to wait and see. They most likely are shifting their focus away from kinect only titles.




Like I said before, They arent excluding. There hasnt been any announcement of TR never coming to ps4. Xbox-one has plenty of other games to entice gamers. Its not just about TR. There will be plenty to play as far as exclusive content.[/QUOTE]

Fact is PlayStation didn't buy exclusivity for a couple of months in 97. Another fact Microsoft instead of spending money on things like thier own ip they wasted money with this sad excuse for a exclusive. Last fact for you. Xbox one is going to trail behind ps4 this gen because it is not as good a system no matter how much you wish it was

Tapatalk
 

XperienZ

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[QUOTE="Sub-stance1, post: 6372071]Does that sound like they didn't gain anything from it? Doesn't sound that way to me.

I keep reading about people saying this money could of been spent on another exclusive IP. Who says they aren't doing that? Thats exactly what it looks like to me. MS has a strong exclusive lineup even without TR. So they added TR to that lineup. A IP that has a huge following and already well established. My excitement for TR has nothing to do with it exclusive to xbox one or late for ps4. Its nothing more than a good business opportunity and and SE took a chance. Its their decision and their IP to do as they please. They have every right to just like any other publisher.[/QUOTE]

Well first off, thanks for the link... Just looking at those dates made me finally realise just how ludicrous it is to think the industry these days has much relevance to how it was 17!! years ago. Even from the wording in your quote it doesn't suggest that the Playstation's initial success was solely down to having TR2 as a CONSOLE exclusive (it was still available at the same time for PC), and it certainly couldn't have convinced Sony that these types of deals are the way to ensure continued success since you're still struggling to show they've needed to keep relying on them.

Secondly, the reputation Sony continued to grow back when it wouldn't have had quite the established, high quality first party portfolio it has now just doesn't work in this case. Not only have they had plenty of opportunity to establish the same had they wanted to, but Microsoft are hardly going to change the perceived reputation they themselves (they really have no-one but themselves to blame for this, no matter what the naive hardcore fans say) created at their X-One reveal as being distinctly anti-gamer by striking more anti-gamer deals like this one. If they wanted to do that, they would have stuck with their plans from then until now, regardless of our feelings about it and proved us wrong in the product they created. The fact that they've backtracked so spectacularly on those plans can only guarantee that there wouldn't have been enough of an enticement for us to buy the hardware the way they'd envisioned it. But this was never really the point I was trying to make anyway.

Thirdly, they cannot spend this money twice, if its gone on this deal it isn't going on anything else. Most would argue that if their exclusives were so strong they wouldn't need to have done this deal anyway. I don't think anyone has argued that SE can't do what they like with their IP - they have, however, argued that what they have decided to do with it isn't a particularly good decision for the fans who follow the IP and don't happen to want to have to get an X-One just to be able to play it. That's basically why they have legitimate reasons to complain - money was spent just to ensure they don't get to play it unless they spend alot more than the price of the game, that's it.

But most importantly you've completely ignored the part I'd even put in capitals for you, none of what you said is particularly relevant to us as gamers. Why would I care about the revenue or reputation built by these companies? I'm much more interested in the way they choose to use that revenue... and this way of using it just isn't right.

[QUOTE="Sub-stance1, post: 6372071]I think its fair to say the Rare back then isnt the same Rare we have today, but that doesn't mean they are any less talented. Don't be so quick to count them out. Rare has always been a secretive studio and they may be working on some unannounced titles. We will have to wait and see. They most likely are shifting their focus away from kinect only titles.[/QUOTE]

Most people don't share your optimism I guess - but I didn't say they were less talented now, just that their talent wasn't being used the way it should have been. Keep your best talent working on your best projects and start up some other studio to ply their trade on lesser kinect-like titles if thats the direction you wish to take. Besides, they're just as likely not to be working on some magical project or shifting their focus away from kinect - its all just "wait and see" as far as the future is concerned. What we do know for sure is that up until now Microsoft hasn't utilised them properly and that's to their own detriment and helped force them into deals such as this one. We can only hope this is corrected soon - but I have my doubts.

[QUOTE="Sub-stance1, post: 6372071]Like I said before, They arent excluding. There hasnt been any announcement of TR never coming to ps4. Xbox-one has plenty of other games to entice gamers. Its not just about TR. There will be plenty to play as far as exclusive content.[/QUOTE]

And like I've said, it doesn't bother me what people play their games on. It just so happens that current sales trends and patterns show more people believe what I believe, that Sony can easily match and subjectively beat the exclusive content that Microsoft will be offering so that's where I'll be playing mine. And just to add, as a Sony fan, I'd be pretty heartbroken (as I believe the majority of other Playstation gamers would be) if we see more of this type of deal done, regardless of the company that's doing it. There's nothing in it for us, and much as you like to try, you're not convincing anyone that there ever will be for anybody but the companies themselves. So, unless you have a financial interest in the business itself I just don't get why you care about this being a "good business opportunity" for them.
 
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So, unless you have a financial interest in the business itself I just don't get why you care about this being a "good business opportunity" for them.
Because this tomb raider deal is finally a "1-up" over Sony. Essentially being bragging rights for MS fans that care about the console war.
 
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$Greatness$

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I must be the only person who is glad that certain games are still console exclusive. That means they can focus on whichever one they choose and I won't have to hear they dumbed this down because this version can't handle it, etc. It sucks since a lot of people loved the series, but Sony didn't want to pony up. Simple as that. They took a gamble just like the EA deal. That's the card that was dealt.