Rumour: PS4 Specs Leaked, APU Codenamed “Liverpool”

ONQ

Master Guru
Jun 30, 2006
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#61
[QUOTE="mynd, post: 5844031]It's not uncommon for a devkit to have twice the memory of the final hardware. But I hope it's not a windows 8 machine[/QUOTE]

that was brought up but they say it's not the case.

& about Windows8 just look at it, it's made with Touch Screens & Kinect controls in mind

[video=youtube_share;DBfjBqIHIog]http://youtu.be/DBfjBqIHIog[/video]

even if it's not a a complete Windows8 console it will be very close to it.
 

Varsh

Editor /Tech Adviser
Staff member
Jan 5, 2006
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#62
[QUOTE="mynd, post: 5843243]Could of called the CPU Manchester :)

In all honesty, unless thi sis the same rumour, we are hearing these specs ove rand over, and if this is truley form a different source than this....

9.The X-Box 3 is going to have an 8-core 64-bit processor (assumedly an i7 or similar design) rated at 1.2 Teraflops. The PS4 will feature a 4-core 32-bit processor. XB3 will be using a GPU running support for DirectX 11, while the PS4 will be using an OpenGL 4 GPU. XB3 is specified to use 4 GB RAM, and the PS4 will be shipped with 2GB.
And given we've actually heard both these specs from different sources now (both 360 and PS3), I think its quit eclear that this guys did indeed have the specs.http://pastebin.com/j4jVaUv0
Way too many co-incidiences now for me.
But wow at the specs. If all the stuff is correct, the PS4 is going to be a mile behind the Xbox.
Taking it all with a grain of salt untill the day they get announced though.[/QUOTE]

This instantly makes me call fake, especially from what you quoted. Every hardware and software developer knows that for one not having a 64b CPU is ludicrous, and after so long Sony already knows that having less than 8 cores is suicidal too, especially with Octo-cores already being present in PCs.
 

mynd

Ultimate Veteran
May 3, 2006
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#63
[QUOTE="Varsh, post: 5844105]This instantly makes me call fake, especially from what you quoted. Every hardware and software developer knows that for one not having a 64b CPU is ludicrous, and after so long Sony already knows that having less than 8 cores is suicidal too, especially with Octo-cores already being present in PCs.[/QUOTE]

I dont think the guys really knew what he was writing down, honestlty as I have said before, he sounds like a guys who saw the specs and quickly wrote them down with out really understanding what he was writing.
 

sneezymarble

Dedicated Member
Jan 19, 2008
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#64
[QUOTE="YouAllFail, post: 5843389]In a console, optimization will bring out even better performance (Usually 2x the PC performance).[/QUOTE]

2x the PC performance compared to what sort of PC setup? During most of this console generation I've had an 8800GTX and there hasn't been a single multiplatform title that performed 2x better on my consoles than on that PC. In fact, quite the opposite has been true. Every multiplatform title was playable at higher settings than on the consoles (e.g. higher resolution, higher resolution textures, more effects, etc.). Either every single multiplatform title is unoptimized, something that strains credulity given all the current highly optimized multiplatform engines, or you're just making stuff up. What is true is that often consoles have much higher (sometimes many times higher) theoretical performance in some narrow set of conditions than a state of the art consumer PC.

On a related note, I think if this console generation has shown us anything it's that if one console can offer better performance than a competing console by using some convoluted custom design, the real world performance gains are marginal, at best. Those marginal performance gains are offset by the additional cost of custom hardware design, and that cost increases the time it takes to be profitable on hardware. This is probably why we're going to see less custom hardware in this next generation. The battle is about hardware anymore. The battle is about services.

Anway, 2x the PC performance? Show me.
 

Itachi

Forum Sage
Nov 13, 2010
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Winterfell
#65
[QUOTE="sneezymarble, post: 5844493]2x the PC performance compared to what sort of PC setup? During most of this console generation I've had an 8800GTX and there hasn't been a single multiplatform title that performed 2x better on my consoles than on that PC. In fact, quite the opposite has been true. Every multiplatform title was playable at higher settings than on the consoles (e.g. higher resolution, higher resolution textures, more effects, etc.). Either every single multiplatform title is unoptimized, something that strains credulity given all the current highly optimized multiplatform engines, or you're just making stuff up. What is true is that often consoles have much higher (sometimes many times higher) theoretical performance in some narrow set of conditions than a state of the art consumer PC.

On a related note, I think if this console generation has shown us anything it's that if one console can offer better performance than a competing console by using some convoluted custom design, the real world performance gains are marginal, at best. Those marginal performance gains are offset by the additional cost of custom hardware design, and that cost increases the time it takes to be profitable on hardware. This is probably why we're going to see less custom hardware in this next generation. The battle is about hardware anymore. The battle is about services.

Anway, 2x the PC performance? Show me.[/QUOTE]
8800GTX is much faster than console GPUs so ofcourse its not valid. Provided the similar circumstances, there is NO doubt console games are FAR more optimized
 

TGO

Ancient
Feb 26, 2006
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#66
[QUOTE="sneezymarble, post: 5844493]2x the PC performance compared to what sort of PC setup? During most of this console generation I've had an 8800GTX and there hasn't been a single multiplatform title that performed 2x better on my consoles than on that PC. In fact, quite the opposite has been true. Every multiplatform title was playable at higher settings than on the consoles (e.g. higher resolution, higher resolution textures, more effects, etc.). Either every single multiplatform title is unoptimized, something that strains credulity given all the current highly optimized multiplatform engines, or you're just making stuff up. What is true is that often consoles have much higher (sometimes many times higher) theoretical performance in some narrow set of conditions than a state of the art consumer PC.

On a related note, I think if this console generation has shown us anything it's that if one console can offer better performance than a competing console by using some convoluted custom design, the real world performance gains are marginal, at best. Those marginal performance gains are offset by the additional cost of custom hardware design, and that cost increases the time it takes to be profitable on hardware. This is probably why we're going to see less custom hardware in this next generation. The battle is about hardware anymore. The battle is about services.

Anway, 2x the PC performance? Show me.[/QUOTE]

based on what? 6 years of updated parts or PC vs Console head2head on the same level?
I mean really? you build a quad-core PC with 1gb of ram a 7600 gpu & try comparing it to this gen consoles, I don't think the PC would win.
hell I've got quad-core with 4gb of ram and a Radeon HD 4800 card( yes its old but still better apparently ) & that struggles with multiplats game
 
Sep 15, 2005
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#67
[QUOTE="TGO, post: 5844544]based on what? 6 years of updated parts or PC vs Console head2head on the same level?
I mean really? you build a quad-core PC with 1gb of ram a 7600 gpu & try comparing it to this gen consoles, I don't think the PC would win.
hell I've got quad-core with 4gb of ram and a Radeon HD 4800 card( yes its old but still better apparently ) & that struggles with multiplats game[/QUOTE]

Run those games at 720p or less and medium/low settings like the consoles and you will basically run them almost as good as the consoles. Optimization helps the consoles of course but i believe it's nowhere near as much as people tend to believe.
 

ONQ

Master Guru
Jun 30, 2006
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#68
[QUOTE="baho, post: 5844993]Run those games at 720p or less and medium/low settings like the consoles and you will basically run them almost as good as the consoles. Optimization helps the consoles of course but i believe it's nowhere near as much as people tend to believe.[/QUOTE]

well show me a game that looks & runs as good as Uncharted 3 & Last of Us on a PC with only 256MB of system Ram & a GPU with 256MB of vRam with a GPU from 2006 in the same class as the RSX.
 

TGO

Ancient
Feb 26, 2006
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#69
[QUOTE="ONQ, post: 5844997]well show me a game that looks & runs as good as Uncharted 3 & Last of Us on a PC with only 256MB of system Ram & a GPU with 256MB of vRam with a GPU from 2006 in the same class as the RSX.[/QUOTE]

I think it'l have trouble running internet explorer let alone Uncharted 3 lol
btw I'm no technical genius, but is there actually anythink wrong with Cell, I know theres processors out there but Cell isn't exactly weak at what it does, I mean Cell + 2gb+ Ram & a up-to-date GPU = what?
mynd?
 

Itachi

Forum Sage
Nov 13, 2010
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#70
[QUOTE="ONQ, post: 5844997]well show me a game that looks & runs as good as Uncharted 3 & Last of Us on a PC with only 256MB of system Ram & a GPU with 256MB of vRam with a GPU from 2006 in the same class as the RSX.[/QUOTE]
This
[QUOTE="TGO, post: 5845021]I think it'l have trouble running internet explorer let alone Uncharted 3 lol
btw I'm no technical genius, but is there actually anythink wrong with Cell, I know theres processors out there but Cell isn't exactly weak at what it does, I mean Cell + 2gb+ Ram & a up-to-date GPU = what?
mynd?[/QUOTE]
This too
[QUOTE="baho, post: 5844993]Run those games at 720p or less and medium/low settings like the consoles and you will basically run them almost as good as the consoles. Optimization helps the consoles of course but i believe it's nowhere near as much as people tend to believe.[/QUOTE]

Console games don't run on low settings, they run from high-very high. PC is only better at Ultra settings.
 

mynd

Ultimate Veteran
May 3, 2006
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#71
[QUOTE="ONQ, post: 5844997]well show me a game that looks & runs as good as Uncharted 3 & Last of Us on a PC with only 256MB of system Ram & a GPU with 256MB of vRam with a GPU from 2006 in the same class as the RSX.[/QUOTE]

Qftmfw.

Anybody who thinks Pc games are optimized is dreaming.
You simply can't optimize an open box.
And yes the magnitude is about 2x.
 

TGO

Ancient
Feb 26, 2006
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#72
From my understanding if a console has GPU slightly lower then a highend PC, PC owers shouldn't stick there nose up to it because it will more then likely outperform their superior card and their next upgrade, how is that even possible?
Because those cards never reach their optimize state in a PC, the graphics that PC owners buy new cards for is possible on their older cards, just not when its in a PC.
You go get Max Payne 3 running on a PS3/360 spec PC at PS3/360 level, its not gonna happen

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2
 
Mar 24, 2007
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#73
[QUOTE="TGO, post: 5845509]From my understanding if a console has GPU slightly lower then a highend PC, PC owers shouldn't stick there nose up to it because it will more then likely outperform their superior card and their next upgrade, how is that even possible?
Because those cards never reach their optimize state in a PC, the graphics that PC owners buy new cards for is possible on their older cards, just not when its in a PC.
You go get Max Payne 3 running on a PS3/360 spec PC at PS3/360 level, its not gonna happen

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2[/QUOTE]

Actually it could happen if the game was designed even on pc to run with those exact cards but pc games arent they are designed to run on multiple different set ups lowering there efficience.
 

jlippone

Forum Guru
Dec 2, 2004
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#74
[QUOTE="mynd, post: 5845104]Qftmfw.

Anybody who thinks Pc games are optimized is dreaming.
You simply can't optimize an open box.
And yes the magnitude is about 2x.[/QUOTE]
More than 2x in some cases.
I wonder how dreadfully PCs would handle their current games with IOE processors.. ;)

In case of ps360 we were unlucky in sense that they were made just in end of GPU generational cycle and a much more powerful GPUs were just around corner.
This made the generation to feel old even faster.
 
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davin_g

Superior Member
Apr 18, 2006
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#75
[QUOTE="jlippone, post: 5846319]More than 2x in some cases.
I wonder how dreadfully PCs would handle their current games with IOE processors.. ;)

In case of ps360 we were unlucky in sense that they were made just in end of GPU generational cycle and a much more powerful GPUs were just around corner.
This made the generation to feel old even faster.[/QUOTE]Man..I don't know what you guys expected from this gen. I find most games (even multi-plats) looking very very good this gen. I don't play on a pc and just a ps3 but I was playing Killzone 3 in 3d yesterday because I found it in my closet and hadn't played it in 3d and I was very impressed visually. I mean compared to what I played last gen this isn't even close.

All I know is that as long as Sony doesn't let the console become too hard to program for or fall to far short of whatever microsoft is releasing we should see awesome games. As far as just pure visuals I don't need much more...I would like to see better physics and better gameplay design (multiple arcs for stories and such) and a much more dynamic environment...than really better pure graphics. Those things should happen anyways because should see more power and memory...as long as there aren't bottlenecks, crazy architecture that takes a long time to learn and code for or optimize game engines for or super high prices I think whatever gets released will be workable for me.
 

keefy

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Nov 18, 2007
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#76
If Developers could code directly to the hardware withotu havign to use Direct X or OpenGL that would save some over heads straight away on all video cards but Microsoft will never allow that.
 
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Itachi

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Nov 13, 2010
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#77
[QUOTE="davin_g, post: 5846822]Man..I don't know what you guys expected from this gen. I find most games (even multi-plats) looking very very good this gen. I don't play on a pc and just a ps3 but I was playing Killzone 3 in 3d yesterday because I found it in my closet and hadn't played it in 3d and I was very impressed visually. I mean compared to what I played last gen this isn't even close.

All I know is that as long as Sony doesn't let the console become too hard to program for or fall to far short of whatever microsoft is releasing we should see awesome games. As far as just pure visuals I don't need much more...I would like to see better physics and better gameplay design (multiple arcs for stories and such) and a much more dynamic environment...than really better pure graphics. Those things should happen anyways because should see more power and memory...as long as there aren't bottlenecks, crazy architecture that takes a long time to learn and code for or optimize game engines for or super high prices I think whatever gets released will be workable for me.[/QUOTE]

Its the same with me. I'm content with the graphics now. Look at The Last of Us, Far Cry 3, Assassin's Creed 3, Tomb Raider, Crysis 3 all these games have amazing visuals. I hope that devs use the extra power to increase world sizes, reduce technical hiccups, and advance AI and physics
 
Mar 11, 2006
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#78
[QUOTE="keefy, post: 5846828]If Developers could code directly to the hardware withotu havign to use Direct X or OpenGL that would save some over heads straight away on all video cards but Microsoft will never allow that.[/QUOTE]

Maybe it is just the wording but the statement above would indicate little understanding of hardware acceleration. DirectX and OpenGL are API's (Application Programming Interface). API just provides a standardized way for the human level coding to interface with the machine level coding. There is no fixed requirement to use these API's for GPU programming, and that is what GPU accelerated general computing is about. DirectX is owned by MS but OpenGL is, well, open. The difficulty for OpenGL is that Silicon Graphics was the major company supporting OpenGL and they dropped that many years ago, allowing further development to be carried on by the open source community. As such, OpenGL has lagged DirectX but Nvidia and id, as well as others, are very strong supporters of OpenGL. Still, it is about the tools. GPU programming at the hardware level happens all the time but mainly in academic and corporate level for custom applications. The reason it isn't done for gaming is that it is very time and labor intensive, not really suitable for short game development cycles. Several Sony studios use OpenCL and OpenGL for game development. The API actually allows for shorter programming cycles compared to direct GPU programming at the hardware level.

Here is a Nvidia presentation showing near real-time Global Illumination with OpenGL 4.2. This is huge because GI is what really makes a scene look realistic. MS is trying to close up the GPU graphics development world by locking into DirectX and DirectX tools but Nvidia is not having any of that. It could be Nvidia takes over stewardship of OpenGL.

http://nvidia.fullviewmedia.com/gtc2012/0515-B-S0610.html
 
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mynd

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#79
[QUOTE="Bligmerk, post: 5847183]GPU programming at the hardware level happens all the time but mainly in academic and corporate level for custom applications. The reason it isn't done for gaming is that it is very time and labor intensive, not really suitable for short game development cycles. Several Sony studios use OpenCL and OpenGL for game development. The API actually allows for shorter programming cycles compared to direct GPU programming at the hardware level.

Here is a Nvidia presentation showing near real-time Global Illumination with OpenGL 4.2. This is huge because GI is what really makes a scene look realistic. MS is trying to close up the GPU graphics development world by locking into DirectX and DirectX tools but Nvidia is not having any of that. It could be Nvidia takes over stewardship of OpenGL.

http://nvidia.fullviewmedia.com/gtc2012/0515-B-S0610.html[/QUOTE]

That's not quite true.
Yes most will use a HLSL to do their GPU programming, but their are a few optimizations that people can hand tweak once its assembled.
Prior to SM1.4 almost all graphics programming was assembly driven. But yes that was a long time ago.

Its essential for a GPU programmer to at least understand what hes reading in assembly.

As for the rest of you post, I agree 100%.
Going back to the days of custom drivers for eery single GPU class out their would do programmers heads in.

People need to remember those wonderful days of Glide drivers.
 

Itachi

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Nov 13, 2010
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#86
[QUOTE="ONQ, post: 5981841]I posted in this thread because it lines up with what I said earlier in this thread about windows 8[/QUOTE]

Yeah I saw your post on gaf too
 

mynd

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May 3, 2006
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#87
So how do we feel about an A10 quad going up against these rumored Xbox specs?
I've long lost touch with performance of CPU's.
 
Mar 24, 2007
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#88
[QUOTE="mynd, post: 5981935]So how do we feel about an A10 quad going up against these rumored Xbox specs?
I've long lost touch with performance of CPU's.[/QUOTE]

not sure, i dont think there will be any difference between Orbis or Durango games though, they want to box nintendo out.
 

MonkeyClaw

Elite Guru
Oct 18, 2006
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#89
[QUOTE="Chille, post: 5981940]not sure, i dont think there will be any difference between Orbis or Durango games though, they want to box nintendo out.[/QUOTE]

Nintendo is boxing themselves out! After seeing that price tag of the WiiU and seeing the dismal hardware sales over the holiday season, unless they change something they will be severely hurting once Sony & Microsoft's next gen systems come out...
 

Itachi

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Nov 13, 2010
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#90
[QUOTE="mynd, post: 5981935]So how do we feel about an A10 quad going up against these rumored Xbox specs?
I've long lost touch with performance of CPU's.[/QUOTE]
Both consoles are using AMD's Jaguar cores (supposedly ofcourse) so both consoles are more similar that ever before with RAM and bandwidth being the only significant difference.

Port heaven