So much for fiscal responsbility

DayWalker

The Heisman
May 9, 2006
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900 billion added to the debt today...

all in the name of preserving tax cuts for the top 2% of America.

All those tea parties were obviously time well spent!!!

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2010/12/07/rich-make-out-in-tax-deal/

This week's tax-cut compromise will trim everyone's taxes. But surprise, surprise, it's an especially rich deal for the rich.

The Obama administration says the deal will help working families by cutting workers' payroll tax contributions by almost a third.

Win some, lose some, some rained out

That's a victory for the White House because it postpones an effective tax hike that would have kicked in next year with the expiration of Obama's Making Work Pay credit, and delivers fiscal stimulus – not exactly the Republicans' favorite cause -- to an economy suffering with weak demand.

"The payroll tax holiday is the most important new stimulus in there," said Chuck Marr, the director of federal tax policy at the left-leaning Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. "Every nurse would have had a pay cut next year, and this is going to make that up and more."

The package also extends unemployment insurance and some other low-income tax credits, such as the child tax credit. All those policies will help ease the impact of a weak economy and a poor job market on lower-income people, Marr said, and boost consumer spending by keeping more money in the pockets of those most likely to spend it.

But naturally, Obama had to give something to get what he wanted, and the package laid out by the White House Monday is chock full of goodies for high earners.

The framework announced Monday evening by the White House would extend the Bush tax cuts for two years, preserving lower rates for those in the highest tax brackets.

It's no surprise that the Obama administration had to back off its desire to raise taxes for those reporting the highest incomes, given the need to bring congressional Republicans on board.

But the extension of the Bush tax cuts isn't the only sop to the high-income class. The framework announced Monday also:

* Leaves in place the 15% capital gains rate on investment income. Obama had wanted to let that rate rise to 20% for those making more than $250,000 a year.
* Puts the estate tax at 35%, its lowest rate since 1931 (not counting this year, when it was repealed). The top estate tax rate earlier in this decade ranged between 45% and 55%. The deal also exempts the first $5 million of assets from taxation -- much more than before.
* Gives high earners big breaks on the payroll tax.
* Allows the private equity type to carry on with their lucrative carried interest loophole. (Some would note that this wasn't a prominent item on the table in the latest go-round anyway, but it is worth mentioning as a shining example of the sorts of broken policies that Washington never has the good sense to deal with.)

All these cuts add up, needless to say, for a federal budget already straining to the tune of trillion-dollar-plus annual deficits. Policy analysts at MF Global put the cost of the tax package at around $1 trillion.

But that is the current price, with Republicans in the ascendancy in Congress, of getting a fiscal stimulus passed. The Democrats could have pushed through a payroll tax cut long ago, but "they missed their chance and you can't go back in time," said Marr.

He says the tradeoffs Obama made to extend tax cuts to lower-income families are predictable but no less frustrating for party loyalists.

Peter Cohan, a management consultant and author of investment books, summed up the frustration of those who see the tax package as the latest in a long line of failures to come to grips with America's true economic problems.

"The latest Obama compromise reinforces the feeling that we are living through George W. Bush's third term," he writes at his blog.
 

Ezekiel

Forum Sage
Apr 29, 2006
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They should have let ALL the tax cuts expire. In all honesty, this won't change a thing in regards to the economy. Government spending hasn't really gone down much if at all and we've still got troops in over 130 countries. Nothing is being done about cutting any of the deficit by a meaningful amount.
 
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engagequadlasr

Guest
#3
I think John Stewart put it best on his show the other day. The goal was to either raise taxes and cut spending, or vice versa, indicating a fair compromise on both sides. Somehow, SOME WAY, we instead managed to end up extended the tax cuts and increasing spending, so NOBODY gets what they want.

This government is [email protected]#$ed. Both sides of the aisle. The republicans for effectively holding this country hostage so the richest 2% can continue being so, and the Democrats for being inept, spineless pussies letting them do so without a fight. And of course, since all they've done is agree on the framework, the worthless POS democrats will have plenty of opportunity to capitulate further when it comes time for signature.

I'm so sure that top 2% is going to go out and create tons of jobs for us after the 1st. That wealth is just going to trickle on down. This is vital to me because of course I will be joining that top 2% when my breakout R&B career starts gaining momentum, so I sure don't want to have my American Dream(TM) hindered.
 
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Bigdoggy

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Jan 24, 2008
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[QUOTE="Morganator, post: 5304466]They should have let ALL the tax cuts expire. In all honesty, this won't change a thing in regards to the economy. Government spending hasn't really gone down much if at all and we've still got troops in over 130 countries. Nothing is being done about cutting any of the deficit by a meaningful amount.[/QUOTE]

And that right there is the huge part of the whole problem. Even Ron Paul said this many years ago and still says it to this day. We are spending so much damn money trying to "police" other countries and it's not really needed. We would save a ton of cash if we pulled out troops from many countries. This isn't a problem from just the democrats or just the republicans. This dept is the fault of both sides. There is no left or right that is to blame less for this. The bailouts Obama did were stupid and caused even more problems, we still are trying to police the entire world it's probably costing us a trillion dollars a year to do it, etc etc. ***yawn*** doesn't matter which side you pick, we are screwed.
 
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engagequadlasr

Guest
#7
The best part is, I bet these Bush tax cuts are suddenly going to become the 'Obama tax cuts' in 2012. Hell, even when it comes time to sign off on this you know the Republicans are going to go into attack mode over the extension of unemployment benefits, in a fit of irony. I can already see the Fox news headlines now.

OBAMA WANTS TO USE YOUR TAX DOLLARS TO PAY FOR WELFARE QUEENS WITH ESCALADES AND DRUG ADDICTS WITH PLASMA TV'S

**** writes itself really.

In short, I think baby boomers are the absolute worst generation this country has ever seen, and I wish Johnson would've sent more of these entitled ****s to their death in vietnam instead of so many poor and uneducated in their place.
 
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Oct 23, 2007
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Is the problem that they cut the taxes or is it that they haven't cut spending yet?

As far as the demeanor of the political parties, honestly, are you surprised... at all? The Democrats have been running the show for the past 4 years (?) and have been using their majority power against the Republicans, now they did it back. I am not saying the threat of blocking legislation in order to force cooperation is good or bad, but it's not a one way street, both parties do it to the other.

On taxes, the death tax is destructive and raising it like they did is a good thing, and it honestly might even need to be abolished.

The continuation of the Bush cuts for higher earners though, who cares as long as they cut spending? They have two years to reduce Federal spending, we will see if they do. If they don't bad on them, bring out your pitch forks!
 
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#9
Daywalker, they pretty much didn't have a choice in the matter. The republicans were holding legislation hostage until the tax cuts were agreed upon. Nothing was going to get passed until they got their way. Pretty sad stuff. :(

http://www.allvoices.com/contribute...e-deal-with-obama-on-tax-cuts-for-the-wealthy

It's kind of like watching a giant baby throwing a massive temper tantrum on the ground until someone gives. Except this baby consisted of elected officials making millions of dollars a year. C'mon Repubs I thought you guys were better than this?

now all we have to do is get rid of those pesky unemployment extensions and we'll be set. :D America, **** YEAH!!!!!
 
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Oct 23, 2007
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[QUOTE="unicron7, post: 5305532]Daywalker, they pretty much didn't have a choice in the matter. The republicans were holding legislation hostage until the tax cuts were agreed upon. Nothing was going to get passed until they got their way. Pretty sad stuff. :(

http://www.allvoices.com/contribute...e-deal-with-obama-on-tax-cuts-for-the-wealthy

It's kind of like watching a giant baby throwing a massive temper tantrum on the ground until someone gives. Except this baby consisted of elected officials making millions of dollars a year. C'mon Repubs I thought you guys were better than this?[/QUOTE]

As long as they cut spending by more, which is what they said they would do, then I don't have a big problem with it to be honest.
 
Oct 23, 2007
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DW,

I do have one other question. Can you provide a breakdown of the $900 billion you are speaking of. Is that ALL from the extension of existing tax rates? Is that $900 billion per year? Is there anything else other than potential future debt which might result from not reducing spending and keeping the tax rates low included in that figure?
 
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DayWalker

The Heisman
May 9, 2006
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[QUOTE="unicron7, post: 5305532]Daywalker, they pretty much didn't have a choice in the matter. The republicans were holding legislation hostage until the tax cuts were agreed upon. Nothing was going to get passed until they got their way. Pretty sad stuff. :(

http://www.allvoices.com/contribute...e-deal-with-obama-on-tax-cuts-for-the-wealthy

It's kind of like watching a giant baby throwing a massive temper tantrum on the ground until someone gives. Except this baby consisted of elected officials making millions of dollars a year. C'mon Repubs I thought you guys were better than this?

now all we have to do is get rid of those pesky unemployment extensions and we'll be set. :D America, **** YEAH!!!!![/QUOTE]

I'm aware.

I would had them vote on the tax breaks for everyone BUT the top 2% every day until January first. Let the American people see who Republicans are really representing...

And after that I would have let them expire.
The tax cuts were irresponsible in the first place- they were legislated right as we were getting into a war right? yeah govt spending usually decreases during times of war.

This is my problem with the tea party- they believe that the public has no responsibility at all for the current debt, and thus, they (we) shouldn't be expected to do anything to fix it. So much easier to point the finger...

"Silver Spoon" syndrome is becoming more and more apparent in America.

On top of that you have the Debt commission come out with a plan... and everyone freaks out :lol:

Americans want everything fixed with no sacrifice of any of the benefits they currently enjoy.

Stupid.

All for one up in this *****... I'll make it... I wonder how many of you will???


For the love of God, please use the edit button Daywalker. How many times do I need to tell you? ~Ixion
 
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DayWalker

The Heisman
May 9, 2006
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[QUOTE="Morganator, post: 5305785]Exactly. The FED shouldn't even be printing any money in the first place.[/QUOTE]

I dunno- the republicans have said they won't touch military spending, social security, or medicaid... so there's about... 50 dollars of debt that can be cut...
 
Oct 23, 2007
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[QUOTE="DayWalker, post: 5305787]I dunno- the republicans have said they won't touch military spending, social security, or medicaid... so there's about... 50 dollars of debt that can be cut...[/QUOTE]

So, basically, all those Tea Party clowns that just got elected said they would cut spending, and now they voted to cut taxes and said they won't cut spending for the bulk of the budget? So, what are they going to cut spending on then?
 
#21
[QUOTE="weskurtz81, post: 5305795]So, basically, all those Tea Party clowns that just got elected said they would cut spending, and now they voted to cut taxes and said they won't cut spending for the bulk of the budget? So, what are they going to cut spending on then?[/QUOTE]

Nothing. They are too busy laughing on their way to the bank because voters made them richer, yet again. They make me proud to be an American.


[QUOTE="DayWalker, post: 5305661]I'm aware.

I would had them vote on the tax breaks for everyone BUT the top 2% every day until January first. Let the American people see who Republicans are really representing...

And after that I would have let them expire.
The tax cuts were irresponsible in the first place- they were legislated right as we were getting into a war right? yeah govt spending usually decreases during times of war.

This is my problem with the tea party- they believe that the public has no responsibility at all for the current debt, and thus, they (we) shouldn't be expected to do anything to fix it. So much easier to point the finger...

"Silver Spoon" syndrome is becoming more and more apparent in America.

On top of that you have the Debt commission come out with a plan... and everyone freaks out :lol:

Americans want everything fixed with no sacrifice of any of the benefits they currently enjoy.

Stupid.

All for one up in this *****... I'll make it... I wonder how many of you will???
[/QUOTE]

It could also be that the majority of Americans for the past 10 years thought credit cards were free money. Gotta buy that new plasma every couple years, some college money there, etc. Gotta keep up with the Jones'. That seems to be the mentality nowadays. What I have. What I want. Wish more people would listen to this guy.

[video=youtube;1yuc4BI5NWU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yuc4BI5NWU[/video]
 
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kuku

Veteran
Oct 19, 2006
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[QUOTE="weskurtz81, post: 5305755]I guess my posts don't deserve a response?[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry but that one was rather hollow. It's not like People don't call democrats spineless for nothing.

This explains it nicely
<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com'>The Colbert Report</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11:30pm / 10:30c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'<a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/367377/december-06-2010/the-word---unrequited-gov'>The Word - Unrequited Gov<a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com/'>www.colbertnation.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:367377' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com/full-episodes/'>Colbert Report Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com/'>Political Humor & Satire Blog</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com/video/tag/March%20to%20Keep%20Fear%20Alive'>March to Keep Fear Alive</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

Obama is honestly a pretty nice president. May or may not be good, but nice. He is actually a person that honestly wants a better nation by having both sides come together, and stop the gridlock to get the country back in shape. And that's what the problem was for the pass 2 yrs (skit).

Republicans sound like bad guys, and probably true to say that currently. They are willing to hold everything hostage non stop for the pass 2yrs daring the democrats fight back every quarter (which they spinelessly rarely do even durring that "super majority")

Democrats have such a problem with confrontation, it's almost bazaar. While republicans are flamboyantly claiming "the goal is to stop Obama from doing anything so he can't get elected".

That's pretty darn shameless to say you're going to screw everyone in the country over because you don't have a president on your side.

And democrats...so spineless X2. They can't even put up a proper mud slinging attempt. They should have cried to the hills and sound-byted all those crazy republicans. Commercials that show how Republican who's model was to "cut spending" just signed on to "increase it because we got our rich-allowance".

But nope, none of that stuff. Just same old Spineless dull democrats, playing nice.
 
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engagequadlasr

Guest
#23
I love it. Obama just keeps bending over to lick Republican boot, only to get kicked in the face repeatedly. Why is this man trying to compromise with people who have made it clear, in no uncertain terms, that they will concede NOTHING from their side, and whose only goals at this point is to sabotage the presidency in the name of team politics, completely at the expense of 98% of America?

The sad part is I'm almost completely over the Democratic party. I'd rather side with the comic book villains. They may be completely evil, but at least you know what to expect with them. And you know it'll actually get done.
 
Oct 23, 2007
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[QUOTE="kuku, post: 5305895]I'm sorry but that one was rather hollow. It's not like People don't call democrats spineless for nothing.[/QUOTE]

What was rather hollow?
 
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Oct 23, 2007
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[QUOTE="jlippone, post: 5306037]Sometimes Direct Democracy does sound good, doesn't it. ;)[/QUOTE]

Not to me it doesn't. You would have a bunch of people making decisions on stuff they don't know about. If you think the US has problems now, just let the average person make nationally important decisions and see how that turns out.
 
#27
[QUOTE="weskurtz81, post: 5306172]Not to me it doesn't. You would have a bunch of people making decisions on stuff they don't know about. If you think the US has problems now, just let the average person make nationally important decisions and see how that turns out.[/QUOTE]

That's the problem with our nation now. You have guys that have no idea what it's like to be a common man making laws FOR the common man. I thought this was supposed to be a government for the people, and by the people. Screw politicians in general. They are business men, nothing more. Take some our most educated professors from different fields across the US and put them into positions. We need a major government reboot. A coup of epic proportions. Keep our existing Consititution and laws, kick out every friggin person in office, and put some fresh faces in. Oh, set term limits to once only, and government officials can't accept funds from any existing business. If they do, off to the slammer with them. One can dream.
 
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Oct 23, 2007
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[QUOTE="unicron7, post: 5306207]That's the problem with our nation now. You have guys that have no idea what it's like to be a common man making laws FOR the common man. We need a major government reboot. A coup of epic proportions. Keep our existing Consititution and laws, kick out every friggin person in office, and put some fresh faces in. Oh, set term limits to once only, and government officials can't accept funds from any existing business. If they do, off to the slammer with them. One can dream.[/QUOTE]

Well, unfortunately the common man does not understand international relations, trade, how to run a business, and hell many can't even balance a check book. I am not saying that our current elected officials are doing all of these things well, I don't think they are doing many of them well at all, BUT, I don't think the "common man" would do them better.
 
#29
[QUOTE="weskurtz81, post: 5306209]Well, unfortunately the common man does not understand international relations, trade, how to run a business, and hell many can't even balance a check book. I am not saying that our current elected officials are doing all of these things well, I don't think they are doing many of them well at all, BUT, I don't think the "common man" would do them better.[/QUOTE]

I was just about to say that. Apparently neither can they. I'm certain a group of well educated middle class men/women would absolutely clean house within a couple years time when compared to what the current clowns are doing. Would be easy to pick them out as well. A bachelors/master degree in X field and then check their credit score for financial responsibility. If all is well, put them in there. Them being middle class would make them think twice when making laws as well, because the laws they make would be effecting them once they vacated their position in 2 years.
 
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Oct 23, 2007
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[QUOTE="unicron7, post: 5306233]I was just about to say that. Apparently neither can they. I'm certain a group of well educated middle class men/women would absolutely clean house within a couple years time when compared to what the current clowns are doing. Especially if the laws they made effected them as well.[/QUOTE]

I would be willing to bet that if the politicians had to live by the laws of everyone else, IE, use OUR health care system, face the same penalties for tax evasion, etc etc, you would see a very serious decline in corruption and runaway spending in DC. Then, tack on term limits, which have both good and bad sides, or maybe handicap the challenger, and you would see a dramatic decrease in the amount of self serving politicians (in theory). Also, they should not be treated like kings, they are there to serve the people.