Sony to reveal new PlayStation 5 details TODAY (18th March)

Christopher

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#7
Full specs
https://www.ign.com/articles/ps5-full-specs-revealed

  • CPU: 8x Zen 2 Cores at 3.5GHz (variable frequency)
  • GPU: 10.28 TFLOPs, 36 CUs at 2.23GHz (variable frequency)
  • GPU Architecture: Custom RDNA 2
  • Memory/Interface: 16GB GDDR6/256-bit
  • Memory Bandwidth: 448GB/s
  • Internal Storage: Custom 825GB SSD
  • IO Throughput: 5.5GB/s (Raw), Typical 8-9GB/s (Compressed)
  • Expandable Storage: NVMe SSD Slot
  • External Storage: USB HDD Support
  • Optical Drive: 4K UHD Blu-ray Drive
 

TidalPhoenix

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#8
whoah! Is that correct!? That's terrible. They are losing two 2TFLOPs to Xbox and they don't even give you 1TB of storage for a gen that will all be about 4K games!
 

TidalPhoenix

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#10
This is Sony's Phil Spencer Reveal moment. Yeah, nice what they've done with SSD...but not 30 mins of laborious chat nice.
 

Christopher

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#12
Sony needs sound tech that makes Cerny less boring to listen to.

Had to turn it off. I'm sure the folks at GDC would have ate this up, but this isn't the way to sell a console to the rest of the world.
 
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Aquanox

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#13
Full specs
https://www.ign.com/articles/ps5-full-specs-revealed

  • CPU: 8x Zen 2 Cores at 3.5GHz (variable frequency)
  • GPU: 10.28 TFLOPs, 36 CUs at 2.23GHz (variable frequency)
  • GPU Architecture: Custom RDNA 2
  • Memory/Interface: 16GB GDDR6/256-bit
  • Memory Bandwidth: 448GB/s
  • Internal Storage: Custom 825GB SSD
  • IO Throughput: 5.5GB/s (Raw), Typical 8-9GB/s (Compressed)
  • Expandable Storage: NVMe SSD Slot
  • External Storage: USB HDD Support
  • Optical Drive: 4K UHD Blu-ray Drive
Wow this was underwhelming!

What a horrible presentation... 20 minutes talking about audio.. 20 more of SSD and why they aren't as powerful as the Series X (Come on you all know they had it in mind)

Never seen a conference of such anticipated piece of hardware being so redundant on things we already know, or things that were already announced and explained at Xbox Series X announcements (SSD as RAM expansion, RDNA2 features, Old TFlops nor being comparable to new ones.. but hey... Series X Tflops are new ones as well)

Wow.. just Wow! This explains why Sony has been so silent in terms of specs, and Microsoft so open and confident. They definitely knew they were ahead of the curve!
 

Christopher

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#15
Wow this was underwhelming!

What a horrible presentation... 20 minutes talking about audio.. 20 more of SSD and why they aren't as powerful as the Series X (Come on you all know they had it in mind)

Never seen a conference of such anticipated piece of hardware being so redundant on things we already know, or things that were already announced and explained at Xbox Series X announcements (SSD as RAM expansion, RDNA2 features, Old TFlops nor being comparable to new ones.. but hey... Series X Tflops are new ones as well)

Wow.. just Wow! This explains why Sony has been so silent in terms of specs, and Microsoft so open and confident. They definitely knew they were ahead of the curve!
Actually, both consoles have pros and cons. Sony's non-proprietary NVMe is twice as fast as Microsoft's proprietary solution. And seems obvious Sony is trying to come in at a lower price as the GPU specs suggest and expansion is going to be cheaper, more than likely. But yeah....the presentation was horrible.
 

TidalPhoenix

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#16
Actually, both consoles have pros and cons. Sony's non-proprietary NVMe is twice as fast as Microsoft's proprietary solution. And seems obvious Sony is trying to come in at a lower price as the GPU specs suggest and expansion is going to be cheaper, more than likely. But yeah....the presentation was horrible.
I don’t think Sony ever do well on pricing. I’ll be surprised if they undercut MS, but they do need to.
 

Aquanox

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May 26, 2005
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#17
Btw, it's 9.27TFlops for the PS5 in highly CPU demanding games. (check the presentation about clocks going down 10%)

Actually, the leak was very precise and it kinda explains why Microsoft emphasized about STABLE clocks in their presentations.
 

Christopher

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#18
Btw, it's 9.27TFlops for the PS5 in highly CPU demanding games. (check the presentation about clocks going down 10%)

Actually, the leak was very precise and it kinda explains why Microsoft emphasized about STABLE clocks in their presentations.
No, he said the clock would only have to reduce by 2 percent to reduce power by 10 percent. Most GPUs have base clock and a boost clock.

"When that worst case game arrives, it will run at a lower clock speed. But not too much lower, to reduce power by 10 per cent it only takes a couple of percent reduction in frequency, so I'd expect any downclocking to be pretty minor," he explains. "All things considered, the change to a variable frequency approach will show significant gains for PlayStation gamers."
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...s-and-tech-that-deliver-sonys-next-gen-vision
 

Aquanox

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#19
No, he said the clock would only have to reduce by 2 percent to reduce power by 10 percent. Most GPUs have base clock and a boost clock.

"When that worst case game arrives, it will run at a lower clock speed. But not too much lower, to reduce power by 10 per cent it only takes a couple of percent reduction in frequency, so I'd expect any downclocking to be pretty minor," he explains. "All things considered, the change to a variable frequency approach will show significant gains for PlayStation gamers."
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...s-and-tech-that-deliver-sonys-next-gen-vision
That's very careful wording. I'm eagerly waiting for real life tests and I do believe the hit will be more than 2%. Also, it's yet to be seen how PS5 will stack up in terms of thermal conditions. PS4s are severely capped by it and it will be nice to see how (if) they keep those 10TFlops stable in demanding games.
 

Christopher

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#20
That's very careful wording. I'm eagerly waiting for real life tests and I do believe the hit will be more than 2%. Also, it's yet to be seen how PS5 will stack up in terms of thermal conditions. PS4s are severely capped by it and it will be nice to see how (if) they keep those 10TFlops stable in demanding games.
I agree. This is all theoretical. Real world benchmarking will reveal the truth.
 

mynd

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#21
Here's my takeaway..

-Sony limited their GPU CU count so they could get backwards comparability, but have actually failed this.
-They have used funky power cycles to overclock the GPU to try and get the performance up but actually destabilsies the entire machines speed. Performance varies form cycle to cycle.
-They have put the most tech into a superfast SSD, which limits the size of it.

Here's the problem, yes their SSD is fast, but in 3 years time, there will be faster, better tech out there. Storage is literally whats changed the most in the past gens.

Any one remember the aweful memory units of the original 360, by the time the gen ended they has usb hdds to support.

Dying on a hill that says 2 seconds loading time vs 4.5 seconds seems weird.

That's very careful wording. I'm eagerly waiting for real life tests and I do believe the hit will be more than 2%. Also, it's yet to be seen how PS5 will stack up in terms of thermal conditions. PS4s are severely capped by it and it will be nice to see how (if) they keep those 10TFlops stable in demanding games.
Works differnet to PC's. This literally steals cycles form the CPU to use on the GPU instead.
So you can havefast GPU performance or fast CPU performance but not both.
 
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acryllicaltair

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#22
448GB/s Bandwidth total when Microsoft has dedicated 560GB/s for the GPU. This thing that Mark Cerny and Co. have assembled is going to fall short in so many areas outside streaming.
 
May 20, 2008
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#23
That's very careful wording. I'm eagerly waiting for real life tests and I do believe the hit will be more than 2%. Also, it's yet to be seen how PS5 will stack up in terms of thermal conditions. PS4s are severely capped by it and it will be nice to see how (if) they keep those 10TFlops stable in demanding games.
It's not a steady 10Tflops. It's basically 9.2 like the leak said it would be. Now it makes sense why they were spending so much on trying to cool it. From what I heard it's not even full RDNA2.
 

AsterPhoenix

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#24
As for now I didn't have my expectations too high to be honest. For now i'll see what games come out for both systems and by the time if I decide to buy one eventually but they'll probably make higher performance models in the next 2-3 years for the price I buy a standard one at launch. For now im sticking with PS4,PC and Switch unless there's games that really catch my eye. It's the games that will decide the future and more power isn't always everything.
 
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Christopher

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#25
It's not a steady 10Tflops. It's basically 9.2 .
No, it isn't. Cerny said the frequency will not vary far from the base 2.23 GHz.


Here's my takeaway..
Here's the problem, yes their SSD is fast, but in 3 years time, there will be faster, better tech out there. Storage is literally whats changed the most in the past gens.
lol...well, yeah. Consoles aren't PCs though. Change is not something consoles handle well. You've got what you've got for years.

448GB/s Bandwidth total when Microsoft has dedicated 560GB/s for the GPU.
Not entirely true. XSX memory bandwidth is 10GB at 560GB/s, 6GB at 336GB/s
 
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Aquanox

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#26
No, it isn't. Cerny said the frequency will not vary far from the base 2.23 GHz.
Yeah he suggested it, but devs will definitely have to make choices between CPU and GPU loads. Thermals will play a key role on performance as well. That won't be an issue in the Series X due to its innovative form factor and cooling solution.

I will take a bet now and say the PS5 will definitely be in the neighborhood of the 9.x TFLops on the most demanding games. Pretty ironic if you ask me. The games that need power the most will have less than the ones that don't.

Considering Sony's past generation moves (adding 4GB extra RAM as a reaction to xOne) It wouldn't be crazy to think this is Sony's response to the Xbox 12Flop (The leak was precise for both the Series X and the PS5). Overclocking the APU in a no sustainable fashion sounds like a feasible way to make up the power gap in the last months of design. 12 vs 10 doesn't sound as bad as 12 vs 9 after all.

Partially true. XSX memory bandwidth is 10GB at 560GB/s, 6GB at 336GB/s.
That was a smart move though. Unlike the APU, You don't need all the memory available in the console to be lighting fast. The portion dedicated to graphics will definitely have enough 560GB/S RAM. Keep in mind the 2080ti is 11GB.
 

Christopher

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#27
Meh.....there are all kinds of narratives out there. Some are genuine, but many are not. Like you said, let's wait for real world results, right?
 

mynd

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#28
No, it isn't. Cerny said the frequency will not vary far from the base 2.23 GHz.
So how does boost work in this case? Put simply, the PlayStation 5 is given a set power budget tied to the thermal limits of the cooling assembly. "It's a completely different paradigm," says Cerny. "Rather than running at constant frequency and letting the power vary based on the workload, we run at essentially constant power and let the frequency vary based on the workload."


An internal monitor analyses workloads on both CPU and GPU and adjusts frequencies to match. While it's true that every piece of silicon has slightly different temperature and power characteristics, the monitor bases its determinations on the behaviour of what Cerny calls a 'model SoC' (system on chip) - a standard reference point for every PlayStation 5 that will be produced.


Rather than look at the actual temperature of the silicon die, we look at the activities that the GPU and CPU are performing and set the frequencies on that basis - which makes everything deterministic and repeatable," Cerny explains in his presentation. "While we're at it, we also use AMD's SmartShift technology and send any unused power from the CPU to the GPU so it can squeeze out a few more pixels."
It doesnt matter which way you cut it, power draw is a direct reuslt of computations going on in either CPU or GPU.
Saying that had to cap it suggests these are CPU virtually idle, scenarios.
In other words, non-realistic scenarios, and while it may hold its own initially with older engines, as people make more and more use of all 16 cores, the GPU side will be impacted.
In his presentation, Mark Cerny freely admits that CPU and GPU won't always be running at 3.5GHz and 2.23GHz respectively.


"When that worst case game arrives, it will run at a lower clock speed. But not too much lower, to reduce power by 10 per cent it only takes a couple of percent reduction in frequency, so I'd expect any downclocking to be pretty minor," he explains. "All things considered, the change to a variable frequency approach will show significant gains for PlayStation gamers."
Suggetsing your only hitting 10% power draw is underplaying it. Assuming you doubled what your cores were doing that 200% you want, which would be closer to 40% stolen form the GPU.

We are not going to know exactly what the ratios are, or how much high that exact "overall" cycles are for some time.
But lets not sugar coat this the numbers he quoted today are best case scenarios.

Bloody nightmare for devs in my eyes, you might literally decide to implement a new process on the CPU's and it has potential to impact on your GPU side.
 
May 20, 2008
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#29
No, it isn't. Cerny said the frequency will not vary far from the base 2.23 GHz.
Maybe for PS4 games. Its a max performance boost but It's not a sustainable boost for most games though, dude. That's something he didn't say. If its sustainable that thing is probably gonna be loud just the pro is. It's a 9.2 teraflop performance just like the github leak said it was and Sony clocked it up to get as close as they can to the 12 TF of the series x which has no boost clocks according to ms and digital foundry

Not saying that 9.2 isn't a very capable machine because it is, but when you compare the 2 the series x is obviously more capable.

The series x is superior hardware wise in just about every way. The only thing ps5 has right now is the SSD speed which really only boils down to maybe a 2 or 3 second difference. I don't get why Sony would invest so much in the SSD when they could of used more resources in other areas like higher CUs or better GPU. Heck, as of right now they don't even have full backwards compatibility with PS4. Not to mention there are still question marks about their ray tracing and Cerny never even mentioned Anything about VRS. I figured ms was gonna have the edge but not as much as it is.

Yeah he suggested it, but devs will definitely have to make choices between CPU and GPU loads. Thermals will play a key role on performance as well. That won't be an issue in the Series X due to its innovative form factor and cooling solution.

I will take a bet now and say the PS5 will definitely be in the neighborhood of the 9.x TFLops on the most demanding games. Pretty ironic if you ask me. The games that need power the most will have less than the ones that don't.

Considering Sony's past generation moves (adding 4GB extra RAM as a reaction to xOne) It wouldn't be crazy to think this is Sony's response to the Xbox 12Flop (The leak was precise for both the Series X and the PS5). Overclocking the APU in a no sustainable fashion sounds like a feasible way to make up the power gap in the last months of design. 12 vs 10 doesn't sound as bad as 12 vs 9 after all.



That was a smart move though. Unlike the APU, You don't need all the memory available in the console to be lighting fast. The portion dedicated to graphics will definitely have enough 560GB/S RAM. Keep in mind the 2080ti is 11GB.
There was rumor that sony tried to get the jump on Microsoft by launching in 2019. There was also a rumor that when sony was in talks with MS to use Azure for their streaming service ms found out what they were shooting for with PS5. Don't know how true those are but it does seem like ms caught them off guard with the series x reveal at the game awards.
 
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mynd

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#30
Let’s put it this way, God of War cranks the fan up on most PS4’s. The way this works, this won’t happen, your GPU performance is simply going to go down. Sony has effectively capped the thermals. If too much power is being used it throttles the units rather than make it hotter.
 
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