[SPOILERS] Star Wars : The Force Awakens Discussion

Lebowski

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#91
Luke is no God. If he were, he would have helped out the Resistance and not let fucking 6 planets get destroyed. Instead he just stood there and watched in the safety of his Jedi temple. It kinda makes you question whether the Jedis are truly good people or just help when it inconveniences them. It's not black and white anymore like the previous two trilogies made the light and dark side look. There's some grey area and I love it. The sith are bad, but the jedi aren't these perfect people either. They're just as much as hypocrite as the people they are calling hypocrites. Luke could have done something. Oh well, we will see his reasoning in the next movie and I hope Rey is like "so where the fuck were you when all this bad stuff was happening?!"
 

PS4freak

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#92
It's exactly what caused Anakin to question the order. They are keepers of peace but like you said, it is when it kind of affects them in a way. But they aren't in the business of watching the world burn so I don't think it makes them hypocritical. Not to mention Luke is only one man. Obi Wan and Yoda did this same thing. In the chance that they would be needed and the Jedi don't die off completely. There is definitely a reason Luke is letting his friends fend for themselves. Don't forget this is the same person who left his training to go save them. He's not doing this on a whim.

Also think it's unfair to say he could have done something to stop planets from being destroyed. It's not like everyone knew Starkiller Base was there. It was inside of a planet. Also nobody knew about the Death Star either.
 
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mynd

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#93
Sound familiar?


[video=youtube;mSQ3BJVMfAI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSQ3BJVMfAI&list=PLWKXJQUwVcfexiFdxZDrFGCx7RGbsuQUV&index=17[/video]

[video=youtube;05dT34hGRdg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05dT34hGRdg[/video]

Holy Shit!
 

Kwes

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Mar 30, 2009
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#95
Seems kinda odd that Sidious would allow the Plagius to live. Unless Plagius faked his death, thus the hideous deformity.
 

Lebowski

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#96
[QUOTE="PS4freak, post: 6496335]

Also think it's unfair to say he could have done something to stop planets from being destroyed. It's not like everyone knew Starkiller Base was there. It was inside of a planet. Also nobody knew about the Death Star either.[/QUOTE]

That was more or less a figure of speech. Of course he can't predict or know they built Death Star 3.0, but he as hell felt its presence when it fired the weapon. And still did nothing other than wait and hope that someone finds his fast travel location.
 

mynd

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#97
[QUOTE="PS4freak, post: 6496387]A lot of people have eluded to that. I'm guessing it's the same theme? Can't listen right now.[/QUOTE]

Yes.

@Kwes, well I mean Plagueis was all about immortality, maybe Sidious sliced his head off and Plagueis has spent years getting his collective heads together.
I mean he has a wicked scar.
 

Kwes

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#98
[QUOTE="mynd, post: 6496400]Yes.

@Kwes, well I mean Plagueis was all about immortality, maybe Sidious sliced his head off and Plagueis has spent years getting his collective heads together.
I mean he has a wicked scar.[/QUOTE]

Maybe, immortal doesn't mean invincible. The scar resembles something more along the lines of a severe explosion to his face.
 

PS4freak

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#99
[QUOTE="Lebowski, post: 6496397]That was more or less a figure of speech. Of course he can't predict or know they built Death Star 3.0, but he as hell felt its presence when it fired the weapon. And still did nothing other than wait and hope that someone finds his fast travel location.[/QUOTE]

You make a very valid point. Just also brings up tie burning question of why he is in hiding. Maybe seeking out records of possible force sensitive blood lines and didn't want to give up his intentions so he could raise an army. Maybe there are more like Rey out there he's just waiting too strike when They come out age?
 

mynd

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[QUOTE="Kwes, post: 6496405]Maybe, immortal doesn't mean invincible. The scar resembles something more along the lines of a severe explosion to his face.[/QUOTE]
I guess,as all the EU stuff of binned, and all we really have is what Palpatine said which was he was killed in his sleep. Could be an explosion.

Was it ever confirmed the Plageuis was Sideious's master?
 

podsaurus

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[QUOTE="PS4freak, post: 6496261]Glad to see more people getting behind Ren. I think everyone must had this base model for bad ass villains and if they don't fit it they aren't happy. Not to say either is right or wrong but I like the fact that he's not the knight of badassdom. When you do that from the start you really limit the character from the start. It seems like the antagonist is awesome maxed at the start and the protagonist has to reach that level. Really kind of changes the whole landscape and plot possibilities.

Many have run him through the ringer but I think many expected him to be Darth Vader 2.0 which oddly enough is what most are calling the movie out for. Basically the movie is New Hope 2.0 and I agree it feels that way. But it seems people wanted another Vader clone. But I like the way he channels his inner darkness by beating the $#@! out of a console with his saber. Have to basically let your anger out for the dark side. I'd say he's doing that well. Lol

But there is now am Emo Kylo Ren Account on twitter. So I guess that's a lot of people's view on him. But honestly Darth was a big winny $#@! when he was that age too. Lol[/QUOTE]
Young Vader is a whiny pussy because of poor writing. Ren is a whiny pussy because of good writing :snicker

Sent from 2000ft under the crust
 

WaxWeazle

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Some useful info.
Saw this on an article on a dutch site, thought I'd share it here, it comes from the book.
I'm just copying this (and translating it) so if it doesn't make sense, fuck y'all I ain't the book's writer lol.
Few answers to some questions TFA may have brought to you;



Didn't the rebels win? What happened?

At the end of RotJ you see Luke and the Rebels defeat the Empire.The rebels build up a new republic, but it turned out to be more of a build up for a First Order. A thought from Leia in the book;


"Those who had led the rebellion had under-estimated the deeply buried desire of far too large a proportion of the population who simply preferred to be told what to do. Much easier it was to follow orders than to think for oneself. So everyone had argued and debated and discussed. Until it was too late."



What is the First Order trying to get/reach?

General Hux talks about the glorymoments of the First Order and the end of the Republic in the movie, but the First Order ain't showing their 'goals'. In the book, Kylo Ren gives an insight;


"Look at it, Lieutenant. (...) It is the task of the First Order to remove the disorder from our own existence, so that civilization may be returned to the stability that promotes progress. A stability that existed under the Empire, was reduced to anarchy by the Rebellion, was inherited in turn by the so-called Republic, and will be restored by us. Future historians will look upon this as the time when a strong hand brought the rule of law back to civilization."



What is Leia's band with the Republic?


In the movie there's not much said about the New Republic, nor about the band between Leia (who's the leader of the Resistance) and the Republic. In the book, Foster explains that the band is.. Not sure what word to put here.. The band isn't what it used to be? Read the quote and you may understand what I'm trying to say;

In this passage, Leia asks Sella to ask the Senators to take action against the First Order. The dialogue gives a sign that Leia lost faith in the Senate.


"You need to go to the Senate right away. Tell them I insist that they take action against the First Order. The longer they bicker and delay, the stronger the Order becomes."

"If they fail to take action soon, the Order will have grown so strong the Senate will be unable to do anything. It won't matter what they think."

Sella: "With all respect: Do you think the senators will listen?"
"I don't know." Leia bit down on her lower lip.



What's the story of Supreme Leader Snoke?We all saw how he popped up on screen as the big, impressive and mysterious hologram, but what's the story of Supreme Leader Snoke and why are Kylo Ren and General Hux following his orders? While not all questions are answered in the book, a conversation in it does point out that the leader's been around for quite a while.

"Kylo Ren, I watched the Galactic Empire rise, and then fall. The gullible prattle on about the triumph of truth and justice, of individualism and free will. As if such things were solid and real instead of simple subjective judgments. The historians have it all wrong. It was neither poor strategy nor arrogance that brought down the Empire. You know too well what did."

Ren nodded once. "Sentiment."

"Yes. Such a simple thing. Such a foolish error of judgment. A momentary lapse in an otherwise exemplary life. Had Lord Vader not succumbed to emotion at the crucial moment - had the father killed the son - the Empire would have prevailed. And there would be no threat of Skywalker's return today."





How did Kylo Ren become a member of the Dark Side? How did he get pulled towards it?

Nothing really explained how Kylo Ren became a member of the Dark Side, why he's in Darth Vader's footsteps.
In the book, a dialogue between Han and Leia explains what happened.


"He knew our child would be strong with the Force. That he was born with equal potential for good or evil."

"You knew this from the beginning? Why didn't you tell me?"

She sighed. "Many reasons. I was hoping that I was wrong, that it wasn't true. I hoped I could sway him, turn him away from the dark side, without having to involve you."

A small smile appeared. "You had- you have- wonderful qualities, Han, but patience and understanding were never among them. I was afraid that your reactions would only drive him farther to the dark side. I thought I could shield him from Snoke's influence and you from what was happening."

Her voice dropped. "It's clear now that I was wrong. Whether your involvement would have made a difference, we'll never know."

He had trouble believing what he was hearing. "So Snoke was watching our son."

"Always," she told him. "From the shadows, in the beginning, even before I realized what was happening, he was manipulating everything, pulling our son toward the dark side. But nothing's impossible, Han. Not even now, at this late time. I have this feeling that if anyone can save him- it's you."



What was going to Kylo's mind when he killed his father?

Kylo Ren kills his father in the movie, but what went through his mind? The book gives an insight on that.


Accepting without quite believing, Han stared back into the face of the creature that had been his son. There was nothing to see there. Only darkness in the shape of a face: alien, unthinking, unfeeling.
Stunned by his own action, Kylo Ren fell to his knees. Following through on the act ought to have made him stronger, a part of him believed. Instead, he found himself weakened.



Does the book give us anything more on Luke?

The answer is plain and simple; No.
There's nothing more about the mysterious ending in the book, not about the relationship between Luke and Rey, nothing.
The end of the book goes as follows;

Whether motivated by her stare or by something unknown, the figure finally turned toward her and pulled back his hood.

Luke Skywalker.

His hair and beard were white, and his countenance was haunted. He did not speak, nor did she.
Remembering, Rey reached into her pack and removed his lightsaber. Taking several steps forward, she held it out to him. An offer. A plea. The galaxy's only hope.
She wondered what would happen next.








Must admit, I'm somewhat tempted to get the whole Star Wars series as books but I don't know if they're all out on books.
Might get this one though.. Even though I'm not particularly a reader.
 

mynd

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[QUOTE="PS4freak, post: 6496548]Shows how much I don't read. Never heard of him.[/QUOTE]

(slaps freak around)

He did the very first star wars book (Star Wars).And the first non-movie one (Splinter of the Minds Eye)
 

PS4freak

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Haven't read much since I was about 10. Have it because I actually enjoyed it but I'm a slow reader now. All the stuff I would like to read is long as Hell. I.E. Game of Thrones. I read some SW apprentice book back in the gap but don't remember the name.
 

Lebowski

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Bowling
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090416154756/starwars/images/8/80/Deathtroopers.jpg

Star Wars Deathtroopers

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net...wsnovel.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20070914210621

Shadows of the Empire (and the graphic novel) are the ones I've read.

Deathtroopers is set between episode 3 and 4 or during 4 if I remember correctly, and it's a horror tale. Chewy and Han find themselves captured by an Empire freighter that is the testing grounds for a biological weapon to be used against the Rebel, should it work and well..things go bad. I won't reveal the rest, but it gets pretty interesting when Vader has his cameo. You'll get to see what a truly heartless bastard he is.


And of course you all know Shadows of the Empire. Fun fact: This almost became a movie, but to due reasons I can't remember, they scrapped the idea and made it into a videogame and reading material. Oh and merchandise.
 

Kwes

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I've been asked the question a few times.

What moments gave you the most chills when watching the first time?
 

Lebowski

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Bowling
Not chills, just warm feelings of nostalgia that took me back to my childhood. Seeing the Lucasfilm logo, the opening theme song, the star destroyer over the planet, the millenium falcon and han and chewie.
 

mynd

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Definatly that framed shot of the Falcon

Some interesting shit here....


[video=youtube;TYLZhDTITr0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYLZhDTITr0[/video]
 
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mynd

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[QUOTE="PS4freak, post: 6497071]I'm gonna wait until the DVD to watch all the deleted scenes and stuff.[/QUOTE]

Oh there isn't any in it. Just a really good talk about the original script, and some of the original art work, and discuss some potential deleted scenes.
For example the original script was about finding a lost jedi temple and involved going underwater to the emperors throne room (presumably on endor).
 

mynd

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[QUOTE="PS4freak, post: 6497071]I'm gonna wait until the DVD to watch all the deleted scenes and stuff.[/QUOTE]

Oh there isn't any in it. Just a really good talk about the original script, and some of the original art work, and discuss some potential deleted scenes.
For example the original script was about finding a lost jedi temple and involved going underwater to the emperors throne room (presumably on endor).
 

mynd

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Ok so Ive seen it a second time, and now the movie makes complete sense to me.

Luke was training a new Jedi order.
Ren killed them all except for one of his youngest pupils.
He left the main map of his location in R2 and locked him down until the 2nd piece of his location was returned which would trigger R2 to reboot.
The 2nd piece he gave to the old guy for safe keeping, he also gave him the young surviving pupil and dropped them off on Jakuu, telling him to keep her secret and to not give the map to anyone unless he felt it was really needed.

Therefore; Rey is the only surviving pupil of the slaughter. In the flashback kylo even looks up at her and heads towards her, as if she was watching from
some hidden vantage point.

I do wonder if Kylo could not force himself to kill her as she was only about 5 years old. Therefore thats why he is interested in this "girl".

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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PS4freak

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I don't think Ren and Rey are that far apart as far as age of concerned if I recall what my cousin said. That was pretty much the whole train of thought of how it went down but there's were a few things that throws a wrench in the spokes.

R2 didn't awake until Rey showed up. Remember BB8 shows up with the plans and doesn't react.

Just too many questions to say for sure but that's about what I thought about it but I wouldn't be surprised if there is much more to Reys story than that. Like how come she can't recall anything from it. Even at her age she wouldn't just forget something that impressionable. It's very reminiscent of the KOTOR story. Don't know if they'll go that route.