This needs to be addressed, and many of you need to hear it. Regarding GTA 4.

elnino

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Oct 19, 2006
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[QUOTE="Lord Arklon, post: 0]I see what you're saying. 100% agree. What I'm trying to say is that I'm sick of EITHER of those points of view.

My point was that graphics are every bit as relevant to games as gameplay, sound, control, or any of the other crucial parts that comprise them. I don't think like the elitists do that one feature upstages or takes precedence a particularly substantial amount more than the other.[/quote]

I disagree. Graphics do matter, but Gameplay takes precedence by a wide margin.

I can name dozens of all time great games with mediocre, even crappy graphics because the gameplay was fun!

I challenge you to name one great, classic game with crappy gameplay but great graphics.

To draw a comparison, in movies, the gameplay would be the story, the graphics would be the special effects. Graphics sell, but they are mostly superficial.

Even the original Doom was an extremely immersive experience.
 

Ezekiel

Forum Sage
Apr 29, 2006
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[QUOTE="Booneabal, post: 0]Don't jump off that ledge!!! Ok jump...

Seriously though this is a classic case about getting all exercised about what other people think. I don't do that, thats why I am the cool dude you admire.

You like 'da graphics great! You 'don like, great![/quote]

:lol: Actually... your avatar says otherwise. :snicker Sorry, couldn't resist.

Well, I still agree with you Lord Arklon though I feel you have no reason to apologize. Some people are thick headed. I think that we're at the point with consoles and games in general, that there is no reason why we can't get top notch quality in every aspect of a game. This is just me though.:???:
 
Sep 5, 2006
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[QUOTE="elnino, post: 0]I disagree. Graphics do matter, but Gameplay takes precedence by a wide margin.

I can name dozens of all time great games with mediocre, even crappy graphics because the gameplay was fun!

I challenge you to name one great, classic game with crappy gameplay but great graphics.

To draw a comparison, in movies, the gameplay would be the story, the graphics would be the special effects. Graphics sell, but they are mostly superficial.

Even the original Doom was an extremely immersive experience.[/quote]

Well, I guess this is a philosophical difference. Gameplay is inherently an important piece of the gaming puzzle, because that's what separates gaming from other mediums of entertainment, interactivity. Like I stated in my wall of text, without either piece of the puzzle, graphics or gameplay, video games would not exist as they do today. A game without graphics is literally a chat room game. A game without gameplay is a comic book. This is what I mean when I say they are equally important.

You're correct also though, because interactivity is what separates games from other mediums, ergo that is a very integral part, more so than graphics because other things have special effects and cool art aesthetics as well.

I think both of us are right, just different philosophies.

As far as classics with bad gameplay, well, there aren't any, I'll agree with you on that one. I attribute this to the nature of games. The thing that fundamentally separates gaming from other media, once again, is being interactive, therefore, if that part sucks, the game will suck although it may have other redeeming qualities. I'll never say that a game with bad gameplay is a good game, but this doesn't mean that the other things that make up gaming aren't important.

Besides that though, take a look at some of your favorite classics. I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of them had graphics that were good, as well as the gameplay. One thing I've noticed is that most developers worth their salt look at gaming as a total package, as I had alluded to in the OP, and take as much pride in their visuals and sound as they do the core gameplay.

Some of my favorites ever are:

Super Mario Bros., Sonic the Hedgehog, Streets of Rage, Ninja Turtles, Road Rash, Mario Kart, Smash Bros., Zelda: A Link to the Past, Gran Turismo, Rage Racer, Tekken 2, FF7, Tales of Destiny, Xenosaga, Star Fox, FFT, God of War, Resident Evil, Grand Theft Auto, Timesplitters, Resistance, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, and several others that I can't think of atm.

Every single one of those games, in my eyes anyway, had graphics every bit as quality as their gameplay. Every last one. Like I said, most good developers will give their graphics a pedigree similar to that of the story and gameplay.

[QUOTE="Morganator, post: 0]:lol: Actually... your avatar says otherwise. :snicker Sorry, couldn't resist.

Well, I still agree with you Lord Arklon though I feel you have no reason to apologize. Some people are thick headed. I think that we're at the point with consoles and games in general, that there is no reason why we can't get top notch quality in every aspect of a game. This is just me though.:???:[/quote]

I still agree with me too:lol:, I just think I shouldn't have been so sarcastic, rude, and condescending. I find that I, among others, am more effective at getting my point across when I'm not that way, and although some people caught my drift, it seems I left many confused and irritated.

I stick by my guns on this one though, in that I don't believe any game, no matter how much you love it, is above criticism. Therefore, it isn't right for people to be slandering others just for not liking a certain aspect of a game. You see the poll results right there, and they support my stance in that I simply don't like the graphics, yet I want the game. It's in light of this that I just don't see what the problem is. We all want the game, it's not like anyone is demeaning Rockstar. Heck, we're putting more money in their pockets, so where's the fire?

I also do think that graphics matter, period. Say what you want about the precedence of gameplay. That goes without saying, we wouldn't be gamers if graphics mattered more to us. There is no such thing as a game about graphics, even if it's a card game, picture game, or whatever, it's still a game that contains some form of gameplay. We don't play graphics, there's no "graphicsplay", it's games and gameplay. We all know this, so that's why I equate saying "Game X is more about the gameplay" like literally singing to a choir, or asking a person who just totalled their car "You having car trouble?"

Thanks for the comment though, and I also agree with you. I think everyone who makes excuses for a game is pretty much telling us that we're not allowed to expect better, and I disagree with that notion.
 

Vertisce

Superior Member
Sep 17, 2007
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Seems like the majority are against you Arklon. I however completely agree with you. I see your point and applaud you for an excellent post. I did however find myself seeing "WoW" in place of "GTA4" throughout your entire post. Thats neither here nor there. Pretty much the only reason I have never played GTA past the first one is the graphics. If the company cannot improve the graphics of their signature game then what makes me think they can improve the gameplay as well? Thats not to say that they haven't improved at all...just not as much as they should have...seriously...GTA4 looks like it could run on a PS2 or orignal XBox. Also while some are saying that graphics don't matter...well...gameplay isn't the only thing that matters. To say graphics don't matter is a falacy.
 
Feb 26, 2008
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lol whhy dont veryone shut up, play gtaIV, have a really good time online. AND THEN GET LAID........
UT3 ALL THE WAY, CHCIKEN WINGS ARE SO GAYYY
 

irish-sid

I'm a hater, a traito.
Aug 26, 2007
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[QUOTE="Tven, post: 0]it's called punctuation, maybe youve heard of it! :mrgreen::-D:-D[/QUOTE]

sorry but what's youve? did you mean you've? check your own punctuation when slagging others off;)
 

Vertisce

Superior Member
Sep 17, 2007
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GTA has not been even close to top of the line graphics at the time that any of them came out. They don't even TRY to make the graphics good. They just throw out the bare minimum they think they can get away with because the know people will just eat it and play the game anyway. They don't care and they never will untill the people that buy thier game make it appearent that they want better graphics. And no I do not need glasses just because you are too blind to see the flaws in a game. Sorry...you fail.