Xbox Fans Are DYING To Celebrate A Masterpiece. Phil Spencer chimes in.

sainraja

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#61
Yea but you need a subscription. Play anywhere is free.
For PlayStation Now, yes – but I wasn't just talking about that. There is no subscription for games that are cross play and have been from the get go. I'll say again, only select titles are play anywhere on the Xbox. Same with games that are cross play on the PlayStation. I had games available to me on the PS4 based on purchases I made on the PS3 @ launch.

Responding by saying your criteria is that it has to be "Play Anywhere" / "Cross Play" on PC, which I can see you saying, doesn't apply as Microsoft also only supports systems that they have a stake in.
 

acryllicaltair

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#62
We weren't talking about services. What you said and what I was responding to, was about Play Anywhere and that is present on the PlayStation between Sony's systems and on PC through PlayStation Now. Cross Play or Play Anywhere has been there since day one, surprisingly not advertised as much.
Those services figure into what Microsoft is doing and how they are going to monetize the platform going forward. There is no way something like game pass will pull people in if there is no constant stream of good content, and this is something that they know they have to tap into going forward hence the buying of studios.

It all fits. People tend to want to split this (I do not know why) yet they all form a complete ecosystem foundation that Microsoft can build on.


Sony didn't do much for E3 and truth to be told E3 has become a joke for a long time. Microsoft had to deliver on their home turf and they provided the best conference for them in this generation.
Reality is that they didn't do much in the exclusive part of it they just presented things well. Acquiring studios is good for them but it's if these studios deliver and if Microsoft will give them enough creative freedom for new IPs is a another thing as well and to make a new hit like they did with Halo,Forza and Gears Of War.
Sony only needed to show a few exclusives and still are good on that side of things. Sony aren't struggling for next generation they just haven't revealed anything on it yet other them stating that they are on the final part of PS4s lifecycle.
E3 is still the industry showcase event. It will never be a joke.

I sometimes struggle to understand this site. Phil Spencer said that he was focusing on hardware, then services (or do I have that in the wrong configuration), then they would focus on games. They have sorted out the services and still continue to do so with how they consistently add function to Live, the addition of game pass. They have sorted out the power difference in the mid generation refresh, and they have gone out and acquired first party studios all of whom are saying that they have creative freedom to do what they want, and that it is not a must that they must have a multiplayer component. And all indications are that they are not yet done with acquisitions. What more could a gamer ask for?


Yeah, but backward compatibility has done next to nothing for Xbox. Neither has EA Access, cross platform (which is very limited), or Game Pass (still early though). Xbox One X has not pushed the scales in MS favor either. Sony has built a stellar library and I don't see any reason why PS4 games wouldn't play on PS5 (actually, it would be suicidal if they can't at this point). So I don't see any of those things doing any more than what it has done. That is the reason MS bought/created those 5 new studios. MS desperately needs quality first party games.
There is this lie that Microsoft desperately needs first party games, and Sony for some reason does not.

They are both not doing that well, the one area Sony has done extremely well was with the release of titles like God of War, Uncharted 4, Horizon zero dawn and the remake to Shadow of the Colossus. If you were looking at this year alone, Sony has had God of War, Detroit and there is Spiderman coming up. That is three games. Microsoft have State of Decay 2, Sea of Thieves and Forza Horizon 4. I know what the AAA games in that lineup are.

I said this in the E3 thread; Microsoft has invested in studios that fill a need, a gap in what they make and that is in single player story driven games and RPG's. There is a gap in what Sony makes i.e. racing games and shooters which is something that people do not acknowledge as often as it should be. There is also nothing wrong in bringing in extra features and function in a console. There are people who use backwards compatibility, people that actually care about it and it removes nothing away from the people (like me) who rarely want to go back a generation.

Both libraries are good, but they are short of exceptional as they were for a good chunk of last generation. Finally, the Xbox One is not struggling because of the games, it is struggling because of the mess of a launch they had and that is something that they have not been able to undo. They did not do what they did last generation with Robbie Bach and Shane Kim who made it an important point to try and court Japanese developers and in so doing brought them on board to the platform, taking time to go on and publish games like Blue Dragon an Lost odyssey and failed projects like N3 etc. It was a system wide departure from what made the 360 such a good console to have and this is something that Phil Spencer has started doing by courting some of the Japanese developers back into making games for the console even though they are not exclusive. It is something that brings diversity to the console.
 
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May 20, 2008
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#63
For PlayStation Now, yes – but I wasn't just talking about that. There is no subscription for games that are cross play and have been from the get go. I'll say again, only select titles are play anywhere on the Xbox. Same with games that are cross play on the PlayStation. I had games available to me on the PS4 based on purchases I made on the PS3 @ launch.
Yes, but they are newer titles. Same as with game pass. Sony doesn't include their newer titles on their services. They also never covered anything about their services at E-3 which I think is disappointing. ms is ahead when you think about providing a Netflix type of game service. The game pass service has a advantage over the ps now with its downloading instead of streaming. That's not to say ps now doesn't have its own benefits but game pass is what ps now should of been.

Responding by saying your criteria is that it has to be "Play Anywhere" / "Cross Play" on PC, which I can see you saying, doesn't apply as Microsoft also only supports systems that they have a stake in.
Well they do own windows so it wouldn't make any sense for them not to.
 

acryllicaltair

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#64
Yes, but they are newer titles. Same as with game pass. Sony doesn't include their newer titles on their services. They also never covered anything about their services at E-3 which I think is disappointing. ms is ahead when you think about providing a Netflix type of game service. The game pass service has a advantage over the ps now with its downloading instead of streaming. That's not to say ps now doesn't have its own benefits but game pass is what ps now should of been.


Well they do own windows so it wouldn't make any sense for them not to.
I insist that their original goal has to be getting something like 10 million users on the service each year. Produce 5 or 6 quality games each year from three or four as they currently do and partner with third party developers on some games to ensure that they are on the service on day one. That right there is a billion dollar enterprise that not only makes a huge profit, but also means that Microsoft can go out and publish even more from what these profits.

There will be software sales on the side, but if Game pass works it will be a game changer in how the industry works.
 
May 20, 2008
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#65
I insist that their original goal has to be getting something like 10 million users on the service each year. Produce 5 or 6 quality games each year from three or four as they currently do and partner with third party developers on some games to ensure that they are on the service on day one. That right there is a billion dollar enterprise that not only makes a huge profit, but also means that Microsoft can go out and publish even more from what these profits.

There will be software sales on the side, but if Game pass works it will be a game changer in how the industry works.
Game pass does work. So far it’s a success.
 

acryllicaltair

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#66
Game pass does work. So far it’s a success.
Maybe my wording was off. If it gets mass market traction, it is a game changer. I would imagine that we would see Microsoft doing more second party games to try and fill the gap once it is huge.

I hope it becomes a success just because it would bring so much more to the table. The biggest benefit would be that gamers would have a far lower barrier for entry when it comes to accessing first and second party titles.
 
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Lethal

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#67
Going off the thread title, I would agree that Xbox fans are dying for that masterpiece. I feel Sony has many "masterpiece" games.

Bloodborne
God of War
Horizon
The Last of Us
Uncharted 4
Persona 5

These are all absolutely incredible games that are easily considered "masterpieces". Does the Xbox One have any?

Possible games that could be masterpieces are:

Ghost of Tsushima
Spider-Man
Death Stranding
Days Gone
The Last of Us 2

As an owner of multiple Xbox One consoles, I can honestly say that my favorite game on the console is Sunset Overdrive. After that would be Forza Horizon 3. Are my favorite XB1 games considered "masterpieces"? Not really.
 
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sainraja

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#68
Yes, but they are newer titles. Same as with game pass. Sony doesn't include their newer titles on their services. They also never covered anything about their services at E-3 which I think is disappointing. ms is ahead when you think about providing a Netflix type of game service. The game pass service has a advantage over the ps now with its downloading instead of streaming. That's not to say ps now doesn't have its own benefits but game pass is what ps now should of been.
Let's not go off course. I was responding to your comment on Play Anywhere and Sony needing something like it. I was correcting you by pointing out that they are already doing it, and have been since launch between their own systems. PC, unlike Vita, is definitely more popular so you can question that if you wish to, but you won't see me debate that point.
 
May 20, 2008
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#69
Let's not go off course. I was responding to your comment on Play Anywhere and Sony needing something like it. I was correcting you by pointing out that they are already doing it, and have been since launch between their own systems. PC, unlike Vita, is definitely more popular so you can question that if you wish to, but you won't see me debate that point.
Well they sure don't talk about it and blocking fortnite cross play sets them back a bit IMO.



Going off the thread title, I would agree that Xbox fans are dying for that masterpiece. I feel Sony has many "masterpiece" games.

Bloodborne
God of War
Horizon
The Last of Us
Uncharted 4
Persona 5

These are all absolutely incredible games that are easily considered "masterpieces". Does the Xbox One have any?

Possible games that could be masterpieces are:

Ghost of Tsushima
Spider-Man
Death Stranding
Days Gone
The Last of Us 2

As an owner of multiple Xbox One consoles, I can honestly say that my favorite game on the console is Sunset Overdrive. After that would be Forza Horizon 3. Are my favorite XB1 games considered "masterpieces"? Not really.
Masterpiece is a matter of opinion. I can say Microsoft has a masterpiece in the Forza Horizon 3.
 
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acryllicaltair

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#70
Going off the thread title, I would agree that Xbox fans are dying for that masterpiece. I feel Sony has many "masterpiece" games.

Bloodborne
God of War
Horizon
The Last of Us
Uncharted 4
Persona 5

These are all absolutely incredible games that are easily considered "masterpieces". Does the Xbox One have any?

Possible games that could be masterpieces are:

Ghost of Tsushima
Spider-Man
Death Stranding
Days Gone
The Last of Us 2

As an owner of multiple Xbox One consoles, I can honestly say that my favorite game on the console is Sunset Overdrive. After that would be Forza Horizon 3. Are my favorite XB1 games considered "masterpieces"? Not really.
Persona 5 was a Sony game? Last of us was a last gen game for crying out loud.

If you have those there, there is nothing that stops anyone from mentioning Gears of War 4, Halo 5, Sunset Overdrive, Forza 6/7 and Forza Horizon 3.

And I never go by metacritic score, I tend to follow one reviewer i.e. IGN.

I also struggle to see why you have Days Gone there. Last time I saw something on it (today to be exact), someone from Gamespot was complaining about how basic the AI was, the crafting of weapons, how much damage is dealt in certain scenarios.

Both publishers are putting out good games in certain genres.
 
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mynd

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#71
Yeah, but backward compatibility has done next to nothing for Xbox.

Neither has EA Access, cross platform (which is very limited), or Game Pass (still early though).
Xbox One X has not pushed the scales in MS favor either. Sony has built a stellar library and I don't see any reason why PS4 games wouldn't play on PS5 (actually, it would be suicidal if they can't at this point). So I don't see any of those things doing any more than what it has done. That is the reason MS bought/created those 5 new studios. MS desperately needs quality first party games.
If your saying that they aren't helping sell the Xbox, individually, no of course not.
But you add a fresh new gen into the mix, 5 new studios, new IP and some decent exclusive titles and you have a service which is superior in ever way possible to Sony.
Lets face it all Sony has is exclusives.
And a new generation wipes all of that clear.
Everything else around what MS offers is superior in every way. Which is why the Sony fans cling to exclusives so desperately now as their mantra.
They got beat on services, they got beat on compatibility, they got beat on cross play. And they got beat on power (which is when the narrative changed).

The same reason that made people go buy Sony's remasters this gen is going to be the same reason they will go to Xbox next gen, because they want to taste what the other side offered last gen and invest in the new gen.

It will be interesting to see what narrative we see next gen from the Sony fans. I guess if the PS5 is a tad more powerful that will become the narrative again.
They will find something.

As for the PS4 this gen, its a fine piece of hardware with the some great games. But it lacks in every other aspect supporting it. As this gen closes out that's becoming more and more apparent.

We weren't talking about services. What you said and what I was responding to, was about Play Anywhere and that is present on the PlayStation between Sony's systems and on PC through PlayStation Now. Cross Play or Play Anywhere has been there since day one, surprisingly not advertised as much.
Playstation Now isn't available in most regions, so its a none starter. Play Anywhere means you buy the game once and then can download it on PC the saves are all cross compatibale with xbox. It has nothign to do with streaming to PC, which Sony finally caught up on.
 
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Lethal

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#72
Persona 5 was a Sony game?
Never said Sony made the game. It is an exclusive title though. Microsoft needs a masterpiece and it does not matter who makes it.

And you mentioned Metacritic for some reason? Not sure why.... Although Metacritic is an overall average of all the critics reviews. So in reality that score would be the only one that matters. If we were using scores at all......in which we are not.

Gears 4 and Halo 5 have too many flaws to be a masterpiece. Gears 4 was way too linear and Halo 5 was not the best in the series.

Days Gone was mentioned as a "possible" masterpiece. Let the game actually come out. I made a list of games coming out that could be masterpieces when released.
 
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#73
Never said Sony made the game. It is an exclusive title though. Microsoft needs a masterpiece and it does not matter who makes it.

And you mentioned Metacritic for some reason? Not sure why.... Although Metacritic is an overall average of all the critics reviews. So in reality that score would be the only one that matters. If we were using scores at all......in which we are not.
They already have one in Forza Horizon 3 . Nothing in the genre is better IMO. Since were going by Metacritic I guess that means Zelda, Super Mario Oddyssey, GTAV and MGS The Phantom Pain are all masterpieces too since they have higher Metacritic score than God Of War.

Gears 4 and Halo 5 have too many flaws to be a masterpiece. Gears 4 was way too linear and Halo 5 was not the best in the series.

Days Gone was mentioned as a "possible" masterpiece. Let the game actually come out. I made a list of games coming out that could be masterpieces when released.
That may be true but people are still playing Halo5 and Gears 4 despite the fact that they don't have the highest Metacritic scores. God of war is mostly just a play through for the story.

I would like to know, in your opinion, what qualifies a game as a masterpiece? I find it funny that people are using this term to describe a game that doesn't have the highest Metacritic score this gen and offers no real replay value.
 

mynd

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#74
Didn't you know Sub?
Sony make masterpieces. Nobody else does.
All these masterpieces have sold PS4 consoles from day one.

In 2013, Sony sold heaps with Knack and Shadowfall.
In 2014 they sold tonnes of consoles because of Drive Club and Infamous and LBP 3
In 2015 they sold mega tonnes because of Bloodbourne, Unitll Dawn and The Order 1886
In 2016 they sold lots and lots because of UNcharted 4 and the Ladt Guradian
In 2017 sales slowed because the games were shit.

/sarcasm

oh wait...their isn't a link between Sony s first party output and sales? Well fuck me. Who would have thought...

Ill take a Masterpiece from anyone, don't give a fuck who makes it.
 
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acryllicaltair

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#75
Never said Sony made the game. It is an exclusive title though. Microsoft needs a masterpiece and it does not matter who makes it.

And you mentioned Metacritic for some reason? Not sure why.... Although Metacritic is an overall average of all the critics reviews. So in reality that score would be the only one that matters. If we were using scores at all......in which we are not.

Gears 4 and Halo 5 have too many flaws to be a masterpiece. Gears 4 was way too linear and Halo 5 was not the best in the series.

Days Gone was mentioned as a "possible" masterpiece. Let the game actually come out. I made a list of games coming out that could be masterpieces when released.
I mentioned Metacritic because I have said that I do not like its aggregate score, and not for the first time I have mentioned that I only go by what one site scores games as. Do a search of my handle with IGN, and you will see that it is something I have said for years, it is not something that I have just started saying.

2) I have always though that anything they score at 90% and above is quality. That is why I have always mentioned Bloodborne in that same vein, but if you are going to use that metric, which I often use, then what is the reason not to qualify games like Sunset Overdrive, Forza 6, Forza 7, Forza Horizon 2, Forza Horizon 3, Halo 5 or Gears of War 4 in that vein?

There are a lot of quality games that are going around on the Xbox One, a lot to keep anyone busy but that is something that is often lost in this 'they have no games' argument that is spilled out by people who are not too keen on the console or too keen to prove a point that does not exist. And this is before you add some really good titles like Titanfall, Forza Motorsport 5, Project Sparc, Killer Instinct or Dead Rising 3 before one starts looking at some huge third party titles that have been sheer quality.

I do not think that there is anyone that has said that there is anything wrong with having a linear game. There is another lie that is perpetuated that if a game is linear it is not quality. God of War is largely linear, Uncharted 4 gives you an illusion that it is open world when there is nothing important you get from exploration of the world (in fact that is something that takes away from it). Games have to be good at what they do as opposed to creating an illusion that they are good at something.

Not to mention this, Halo is still the best first person shooter exclusive out, it is better at content than anything third parties are putting. The story is what was missing, Gears is Gears, it was quality. These two are some of the best shooters out on console, and it is not the depth in gameplay, but also the amount of content and support they have received that have them up there as that in an age where games are trying to cut content or trying to shoehorn the battle royale modes.

So no. Microsoft does not 'NEED' that big game. What they needed and have needed for some time was diversity in the lineup and they are halfway into sorting that out with the developers they acquired. Those developers would now have to put out quality titles.

Lastly, I mentioned this at least twice already, Microsoft's big mistake was not courting Japanese developers. Sony has a way of getting exclusives just on the matter of being huge in Japan; it has nothing to do with what Sony has or has not done, and if you are going to put games like Persona out here, there is not a single reason why you should not mention other third party titles. The very least one can o is be consistent.

Sony's advantage this generation has nothing to do with games, or their sales. I have always mentioned that you go from Bloodborne, to Uncharted 4, to Horizon Zero Dawn, to God of War. These are the top tier quality titles that Sony has out this generation.

I think Mynd said it best when he said that once this generation is done, or I would add, once those new studios start pumping out quality titles (if they ever do), Sony will have an edge in nothing.
 
May 20, 2008
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#76
In other news, State of Decay 2 was the best selling game in May beating out God of War and Detroit Become Human. Replay value folks! This is good news and I’m happy for Undead Labs.

I mentioned Metacritic because I have said that I do not like its aggregate score, and not for the first time I have mentioned that I only go by what one site scores games as. Do a search of my handle with IGN, and you will see that it is something I have said for years, it is not something that I have just started saying.

2) I have always though that anything they score at 90% and above is quality. That is why I have always mentioned Bloodborne in that same vein, but if you are going to use that metric, which I often use, then what is the reason not to qualify games like Sunset Overdrive, Forza 6, Forza 7, Forza Horizon 2, Forza Horizon 3, Halo 5 or Gears of War 4 in that vein?

There are a lot of quality games that are going around on the Xbox One, a lot to keep anyone busy but that is something that is often lost in this 'they have no games' argument that is spilled out by people who are not too keen on the console or too keen to prove a point that does not exist. And this is before you add some really good titles like Titanfall, Forza Motorsport 5, Project Sparc, Killer Instinct or Dead Rising 3 before one starts looking at some huge third party titles that have been sheer quality.

I do not think that there is anyone that has said that there is anything wrong with having a linear game. There is another lie that is perpetuated that if a game is linear it is not quality. God of War is largely linear, Uncharted 4 gives you an illusion that it is open world when there is nothing important you get from exploration of the world (in fact that is something that takes away from it). Games have to be good at what they do as opposed to creating an illusion that they are good at something.

Not to mention this, Halo is still the best first person shooter exclusive out, it is better at content than anything third parties are putting. The story is what was missing, Gears is Gears, it was quality. These two are some of the best shooters out on console, and it is not the depth in gameplay, but also the amount of content and support they have received that have them up there as that in an age where games are trying to cut content or trying to shoehorn the battle royale modes.

So no. Microsoft does not 'NEED' that big game. What they needed and have needed for some time was diversity in the lineup and they are halfway into sorting that out with the developers they acquired. Those developers would now have to put out quality titles.

Lastly, I mentioned this at least twice already, Microsoft's big mistake was not courting Japanese developers. Sony has a way of getting exclusives just on the matter of being huge in Japan; it has nothing to do with what Sony has or has not done, and if you are going to put games like Persona out here, there is not a single reason why you should not mention other third party titles. The very least one can o is be consistent.

Sony's advantage this generation has nothing to do with games, or their sales. I have always mentioned that you go from Bloodborne, to Uncharted 4, to Horizon Zero Dawn, to God of War. These are the top tier quality titles that Sony has out this generation.

I think Mynd said it best when he said that once this generation is done, or I would add, once those new studios start pumping out quality titles (if they ever do), Sony will have an edge in nothing.
I actually think sites like metacritic do more harm than good for the industry.
 
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acryllicaltair

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#77
In other news, State of Decay 2 was the best selling game in May beating out God of War and Detroit Become Human. Replay value folks! This is good news and I’m happy for Undead Labs.



I actually think sites like metacritic do more harm than good for the industry.
Metacritic has become something sort of a tool to brag about things. I tend to follow one reviewer who I can generally trust a good amount of the time. For me that has been IGN for close to two decades. I sometimes might not agree with how they have reviewed a title (Destiny for example) but it is a far better way of judging games than an aggregate score.

Look at something like Polygon's score of Killzone Shadowfall: These are the issues one runs into when they start chiming about aggregate scores. You will have some that are inexplicably high, an some that are inexplicably low. I cannot be bothered with that for the most part.

By the way, I also tend to think that people like @Lethal sometimes tend to be hard on games for no good reason. I have played a lot of games in my time, and I am yet to see a game that did not have any flaws. You can always any one title apart, find an issue here and there. That is not something I tend to focus on unless it is so glaring as to affect the quality of a title. People complain about the story in Halo yet that was never a deal breaker in a lot of games, people complain about Gears being linear when that has never been an issue in titles like Uncharted, and I even see people who yap about how great Polyphony Digital is online complain about the AI on Forza when PD has never put out a game with AI that could pass as competent.

If you pick any title in any genre, there are issues. I for one always hope that hack and slash games will have the difficulty of Ninja Gaiden, but that has never stopped me from acknowledging DMC or God of War as quality titles, and it shouldn't. I always hope that there will be a good amount of content on shooter when it comes to campaign, EA and Activision tend to differ. So I tend not to buy their games, it does not mean that they do not have some quality titles, heck I enjoyed Battlefield 1 when I visited a friend. There is critique and then there is nit picking.....the latter I find hard to live with.
 

AsterPhoenix

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#78
E3 is still the industry showcase event. It will never be a joke.

I sometimes struggle to understand this site. Phil Spencer said that he was focusing on hardware, then services (or do I have that in the wrong configuration), then they would focus on games. They have sorted out the services and still continue to do so with how they consistently add function to Live, the addition of game pass. They have sorted out the power difference in the mid generation refresh, and they have gone out and acquired first party studios all of whom are saying that they have creative freedom to do what they want, and that it is not a must that they must have a multiplayer component. And all indications are that they are not yet done with acquisitions. What more could a gamer ask for?
Well even in despite of that I feel like E3 was a lot more interesting years ago but that's an opinion. I feel more developers just make more interesting announcements throughout the year.

Well yes Phil has had a lot to clean up with the mess near the end of last gen and the start of Xbox One generation. Well the power difference yes it is more powerful the Xbox One X but who would pay extra for more power for switching consoles for multiplatform games and in the power scale they'd want to focus into deliver in that way with exclusive games to convince people to buy the console. Yes in that regard to the studios they have to deliver whether the Playground Games and Undead Labs will continue with Forza Horizon and State of Decay series while the other 3 will have new IPs.

Yes with the strategy they trying to get back when Xbox 360 had a good start with trying to work on first party games to get a head start next generation.
 

acryllicaltair

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Feb 24, 2010
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#79
Well even in despite of that I feel like E3 was a lot more interesting years ago but that's an opinion. I feel more developers just make more interesting announcements throughout the year.

Well yes Phil has had a lot to clean up with the mess near the end of last gen and the start of Xbox One generation. Well the power difference yes it is more powerful the Xbox One X but who would pay extra for more power for switching consoles for multiplatform games and in the power scale they'd want to focus into deliver in that way with exclusive games to convince people to buy the console. Yes in that regard to the studios they have to deliver whether the Playground Games and Undead Labs will continue with Forza Horizon and State of Decay series while the other 3 will have new IPs.

Yes with the strategy they trying to get back when Xbox 360 had a good start with trying to work on first party games to get a head start next generation.
1. Why would anyone invest in the ps4 pro? Is not to have a better experience?

2. There is nothing wrong in buying a developer that you think is promising. Sony bought Guerrilla before they had put out a good title. I would also say that there is a habit that MS had where they would partner with a developer and that developer would be bought out by another publisher. DICE, Bioware, Bizarre etc were all bought out, so there is nothing wrong with MS bolstering their 1st party with those two Undead Labs put out a stunner in SoD last gen, and the one thing that lacks on their current game in polish. Playground is a top tier racing developer who might be making something else for MS. That there is a new IP, or something that we have not seen this generation yet.

3) E3 is always going to be the showcase event for the industry. This is where these companies put a lot of their time over a year. Nothing measures up to it in excitement or granduer. It is where they mostly reveal consoles, it is where they mostly reveal games and their gameplay. It is by far and large the industry marker.
 

AsterPhoenix

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Aug 21, 2008
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#80
1. Why would anyone invest in the ps4 pro? Is not to have a better experience?

2. There is nothing wrong in buying a developer that you think is promising. Sony bought Guerrilla before they had put out a good title. I would also say that there is a habit that MS had where they would partner with a developer and that developer would be bought out by another publisher. DICE, Bioware, Bizarre etc were all bought out, so there is nothing wrong with MS bolstering their 1st party with those two Undead Labs put out a stunner in SoD last gen, and the one thing that lacks on their current game in polish. Playground is a top tier racing developer who might be making something else for MS. That there is a new IP, or something that we have not seen this generation yet.

3) E3 is always going to be the showcase event for the industry. This is where these companies put a lot of their time over a year. Nothing measures up to it in excitement or granduer. It is where they mostly reveal consoles, it is where they mostly reveal games and their gameplay. It is by far and large the industry marker.
1. Yes people wanted to get better performance for their exclusives and multiplatforms PS4 Pro had a advantage since it came out first as well as lot of PS4/PC exclusives which Xbox One didn't have as many and like you said that Xbox One lost a bit on the Japanese side of things when it came to games which a lot went to PS4/PC. Yes current Xbox One owners and a few others were willing to invest into buying the Xbox One X. Lot of the things you can play on PC nowdays anyway with some Xbox One games.

Phil admitted he wished he help support the PC gamers better.

2. Yes I never stated there was anything wrong in that and it's good that Microsoft is working on getting studios to produce first party content. Yup that case with Bioware and Mass Effect then EA brought them out. Yes the games they'll bring we will see in time

3. Some think Gamescom has become bigger with it having 5 times of the visitors last year but this year might be different.
 

Christopher

Community and Technical Manager
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Jun 1, 2007
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#81
If your saying that they aren't helping sell the Xbox, individually, no of course not.
But you add a fresh new gen into the mix, 5 new studios, new IP and some decent exclusive titles and you have a service which is superior in ever way possible to Sony.
Lets face it all Sony has is exclusives.
And a new generation wipes all of that clear.
Everything else around what MS offers is superior in every way. Which is why the Sony fans cling to exclusives so desperately now as their mantra.
They got beat on services, they got beat on compatibility, they got beat on cross play. And they got beat on power (which is when the narrative changed).

The same reason that made people go buy Sony's remasters this gen is going to be the same reason they will go to Xbox next gen, because they want to taste what the other side offered last gen and invest in the new gen.

It will be interesting to see what narrative we see next gen from the Sony fans. I guess if the PS5 is a tad more powerful that will become the narrative again.
They will find something.

As for the PS4 this gen, its a fine piece of hardware with the some great games. But it lacks in every other aspect supporting it. As this gen closes out that's becoming more and more apparent.
If PS4 games are playable on PS5, how are all the Sony exclusives wiped clear next gen?

You are right. With the release of Xbox One X, Xbox has PS4 beat in every way......except games. That power boost hasn't pushed Xbox ahead of PS4 though. Heck, Xbox One X doesn't outsell base Xbox One just like Pro doesn't outsell base PS4. So when are all these advantages supposed to kick in? Next gen? And is it really becoming more and more apparent where PS4 lacks or is it becoming more and more important where PS4 is superior (games).? I really don't know. Xbox One should be wiping the floor with PS4. And yet, latest NPD was just released and yep, PS4 won again. Xbox One is in third place. Despite BC, crossplay, etc.

As far as narratives, I seem to remember a heavy defense of the base Xbox One mounted by a number of Xbox fans as well as lot of criticism aimed at Sony first party earlier this gen. Xbox fans are just as guilty of changing their story it seems.
 

Lethal

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Nov 14, 2007
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#82
There are a lot of quality games that are going around on the Xbox One,
Since when is "quality game" considered a "masterpiece"?

Everyone knows the Xbox One does not have masterpiece games.

And why would anyone invest in a PS4 Pro? You really need someone to explain that to you?

1. Better PS VR support
2. Better textures and resolution over the PS4
3. More powerful overall over the PS4

That is like saying why would anyone invest in an Xbox One X

Like I said before. Microsoft needs the Xbox 360 to keep the Xbox One in the race. The PS4 does not need the PS3. This is why MS keeps putting out last gen support on their console. More 360 titles are played on the Xbox One than actual XB1 games..
 

Christopher

Community and Technical Manager
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#83
Personally, I would put Forza Horizon 3 in the "masterpiece" category. I didn't think any racer would beat Burnout Paradise for me, but FH3 has done it. I fully expect FH4 to be as good or better.

And why would anyone invest in a PS4 Pro? You really need someone to explain that to you?
I believe his response was rhetorical. His point was you invest in PS4 Pro for the same reason you invest in Xbox One X.
 

Fijiandoce

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Oct 8, 2007
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#84
But you add a fresh new gen into the mix, 5 new studios, new IP and some decent exclusive titles and you have a service which is superior in ever way possible to Sony.
Lets face it all Sony has is exclusives.
And a new generation wipes all of that clear.
The significance of the studio's seems to be vastly overstated as if MS just purchased Guerrilla Games or even CD prjeckt.

Two of the studio's they've picked up are indie devs, with small teams. Both of those studio's have only put out 2 games. Neither were technical strokes of brilliance at that, and one of them has yet to actually put out something that is technically solid.

One of the other teams is tiny... like 50 guys? They have the technical competence (designing your own in-house engine ain't easy - even if they ultimately made the switch to UE) but there is no manpower here.

Another one has no staff...

And the last is the only one comprised of a full house of competent Devs, but who've only ever been allowed to make titles in a single genre.

I don't see how this somehow negates the likes of Naughty Dog, Guerrilla Games, Santa Monica etc. etc. to make this a valid point...

What is the significance of these studio's in relation to what Sony, or even Ninetendo have?... this really should have been done about 5 years ago. If anything, this is catching up to the momentum Sony has, not the other way around.

Everything else around what MS offers is superior in every way.
This is probably ill-informed, but definetly highly subjective.

I don't see any additional value in some of what XB offer - namely the EA stuff. You stop paying EA, those free goodies go away. Personally, there is no value in EA access for me. I play far too infrequently for the subscription cost... which is in addition to paying to play on the xbox itself (not that Sony do any better, but at least EA aren't there to rub salt in).

They got beat on services, they got beat on compatibility, they got beat on cross play. And they got beat on power (which is when the narrative changed).
PS4 also offers Cross-play as well, not that any xbox diehards care to notice. I believe Sony have been doing so since last-gen and were probably the only ones doing it last-gen. Sony even entertained cross-platform-cross-title play with EVE and Dust.

MS did not entertain the idea of cross-platform then... why is this such a big deal with Sony now?
 

acryllicaltair

Dedicated Member
Feb 24, 2010
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#85
Since when is "quality game" considered a "masterpiece"?

Everyone knows the Xbox One does not have masterpiece games.

And why would anyone invest in a PS4 Pro? You really need someone to explain that to you?

1. Better PS VR support
2. Better textures and resolution over the PS4
3. More powerful overall over the PS4

That is like saying why would anyone invest in an Xbox One X

Like I said before. Microsoft needs the Xbox 360 to keep the Xbox One in the race. The PS4 does not need the PS3. This is why MS keeps putting out last gen support on their console. More 360 titles are played on the Xbox One than actual XB1 games..
a. Who defines what a masterpiece is? Is it the industry or is it me as a gamer? Everyone has his way of looking at things e.g. Forza Horizon 3 was better reviewed than Forza Motorsport 6 or 7. I prefer the simulation game to the arcade, and by some distance too.

The industry keeps telling me that Tekken 7 is the best Tekken game in the series, and I have played every Tekken game since Tekken 2. I still believe that the best Tekken game is Tekken 5, back in the Playstation 2, and that the best fighting game I have played to date in Dead or Alive 4.

I have a friend who is happy just getting a FIFA game each year, and another who only plays FIFA, Pro Evo and NBA 2k. you could never convince them to get into anything else because they see no value in it. Each one of the games I mentioned got a high review from IGN, they were all top quality, and some are the best titles in their genre. So what are we arguing about? That they did not get a 10/10? Those games are few and far between in any generation, and you can count them even in this generation.

b. It was a rhetorical question on the PS4 pro, and one that I answered with a question.
If PS4 games are playable on PS5, how are all the Sony exclusives wiped clear next gen?

You are right. With the release of Xbox One X, Xbox has PS4 beat in every way......except games. That power boost hasn't pushed Xbox ahead of PS4 though. Heck, Xbox One X doesn't outsell base Xbox One just like Pro doesn't outsell base PS4. So when are all these advantages supposed to kick in? Next gen? And is it really becoming more and more apparent where PS4 lacks or is it becoming more and more important where PS4 is superior (games).? I really don't know. Xbox One should be wiping the floor with PS4. And yet, latest NPD was just released and yep, PS4 won again. Xbox One is in third place. Despite BC, crossplay, etc.

As far as narratives, I seem to remember a heavy defense of the base Xbox One mounted by a number of Xbox fans as well as lot of criticism aimed at Sony first party earlier this gen. Xbox fans are just as guilty of changing their story it seems.
There was no narrative being put out. Sony did not have games early on when MS did. The moment Uncharted 4 came out followed by Horizon Zero Dawn the next year and then God of War this year is when a narrative started cropping up that it was now about games and not the power difference. We have always stated that Microsoft has always had games, but lacked diversity. There are some that would love to see Fable, some like me would simply love a Rallisport Challenge and a new Perfect Dark along with any new IP's that are quality.

All through, people who primarily game on this console have said that there was a need to diversify that lineup, possibly get some more development teams in or go the publishing route. When Phil Spencer said that they were working on it and that it would take time, some of us simply said let us wait and see. There were those who jumped the gun seeing that power was no longer in the game, so we really have not changed.

On the former points, Microsoft has not lacked games. I honestly do not know why this is still spun as if it is true. Pick any year and they put out some really good games. Where they messed was the launch, and the power difference.......that bad press is not something that they have been able to get rid off, and it has been shown by their market performance. They have admitted this to some degree in the past month or so, something you rarely see from most companies.

What I think was being stated is what the future holds. I do not think that Microsoft will outperform Sony when it comes to console sales next gen. While that is something they may be planning to achieve, the real money that they are betting on along with game sales is game pass subscriptions and having a superior service. If they are to migrate current gen games into the next generation, and have that on their game pass catalogue as they continue to grow their next gen library then that might be a selling point to some gamers. If game pass is also to succeed, then they have to have a good number of developers putting out content that is diverse.
The significance of the studio's seems to be vastly overstated as if MS just purchased Guerrilla Games or even CD prjeckt.

Two of the studio's they've picked up are indie devs, with small teams. Both of those studio's have only put out 2 games. Neither were technical strokes of brilliance at that, and one of them has yet to actually put out something that is technically solid.

One of the other teams is tiny... like 50 guys? They have the technical competence (designing your own in-house engine ain't easy - even if they ultimately made the switch to UE) but there is no manpower here.

Another one has no staff...

And the last is the only one comprised of a full house of competent Devs, but who've only ever been allowed to make titles in a single genre.

I don't see how this somehow negates the likes of Naughty Dog, Guerrilla Games, Santa Monica etc. etc. to make this a valid point...

What is the significance of these studio's in relation to what Sony, or even Ninetendo have?... this really should have been done about 5 years ago. If anything, this is catching up to the momentum Sony has, not the other way around.


This is probably ill-informed, but definetly highly subjective.

I don't see any additional value in some of what XB offer - namely the EA stuff. You stop paying EA, those free goodies go away. Personally, there is no value in EA access for me. I play far too infrequently for the subscription cost... which is in addition to paying to play on the xbox itself (not that Sony do any better, but at least EA aren't there to rub salt in).


PS4 also offers Cross-play as well, not that any xbox diehards care to notice. I believe Sony have been doing so since last-gen and were probably the only ones doing it last-gen. Sony even entertained cross-platform-cross-title play with EVE and Dust.

MS did not entertain the idea of cross-platform then... why is this such a big deal with Sony now?
There is nothing wrong with getting a talented developer, and there is nothing wrong with the numbers either. Ninja Theory put out a AAA title with a $10M budget that included advertising with a cast of 20 people working on the project.

When Sony bought out Guerrilla games, all they had put out was Killzone on the playstation 2, and it was not a great game. What was Bungie before Microsoft bought them?

What was Playground games before they started partnering with Turn 10 to do an open world arcade version of the sim?

It is almost lost as to who some of these people who work for these studios are and their imprint on the gaming scene. Rod Fergurson took over the Coalition with only three developers that had worked on Gears, Compulsion is headed by someone who worked on Bioshock, The Initiative by a gaming guru, Undead Labs by someone who used to work for Blizzard and ArenaNet.

Some would have us believe that they have bought scrubs. No, they have bought development teams that they believe have promise. Whether that promise is delivered upon we have to wait and see.

I also do not see the problem with a studio hiring. MS started Turn 10, they built the Coalition from the ground up, and Playground was doing the same for a new game that they are working on. Why are people so interested in writing off some of these developers before they have had a chance to put out a game for MS under MS ownership?
 

acryllicaltair

Dedicated Member
Feb 24, 2010
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#86
1. Yes people wanted to get better performance for their exclusives and multiplatforms PS4 Pro had a advantage since it came out first as well as lot of PS4/PC exclusives which Xbox One didn't have as many and like you said that Xbox One lost a bit on the Japanese side of things when it came to games which a lot went to PS4/PC. Yes current Xbox One owners and a few others were willing to invest into buying the Xbox One X. Lot of the things you can play on PC nowdays anyway with some Xbox One games.

Phil admitted he wished he help support the PC gamers better.

2. Yes I never stated there was anything wrong in that and it's good that Microsoft is working on getting studios to produce first party content. Yup that case with Bioware and Mass Effect then EA brought them out. Yes the games they'll bring we will see in time

3. Some think Gamescom has become bigger with it having 5 times of the visitors last year but this year might be different.
1. Microsoft really does not care whether they sell you the game on Windows or they sell it to you on Xbox. Both are their platforms. What they are counting on is a sale, and they have gone beyond to tell you that there is a play anywhere feature that allows you to buy it on one platform and carry your progress into another if you so wish.

2. I am always patient when it comes to games. My hope is that they continue expanding their studios.

3. Gamescon may be getting bigger, but there is just something with E3 that makes it special. This year in particular, the exit interviews that were on Inside Xbox, or the feature with Giant Bomb were eye openers. This is the sort of coverage and access that I rarely get to see from Gamescon or even Tokyo Games Show.
 

Fijiandoce

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Oct 8, 2007
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#87
Why are people so interested in writing off some of these developers before they have had a chance to put out a game for MS under MS ownership?
Personally, only 3 of the studio's are worth anything as it stands: Playground, Ninja Theory, and Compulsion (as should be implied by my post).

Guerrilla Games designed their own engine for Killzone (The emotion engine - this is the hardware inside the PS2 and not a software engine - was similar to the Cell in difficulty). Undead labs have used Cryengine, then Unreal and made neither of them sing (and both are Xbox exclusives)... As i posted The Initiative has nobody currently occupying any of the seats... so unless empty offices make games, they really don'y count at the moment. Especially as a point against an already established [insert your chosen opposition company here] first party.

Why are people so interested in writing off some of these developers before they have had a chance to put out a game for MS under MS ownership?
Why are established studio's being written off in a similar vein?
But you add a fresh new gen into the mix, 5 new studios, new IP and some decent exclusive titles and you have a service which is superior in ever way possible to Sony.
 

acryllicaltair

Dedicated Member
Feb 24, 2010
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#88
Personally, only 3 of the studio's are worth anything as it stands: Playground, Ninja Theory, and Compulsion (as should be implied by my post).

Guerrilla Games designed their own engine for Killzone (The emotion engine - this is the hardware inside the PS2 and not a software engine - was similar to the Cell in difficulty). Undead labs have used Cryengine, then Unreal and made neither of them sing (and both are Xbox exclusives)... As i posted The Initiative has nobody currently occupying any of the seats... so unless empty offices make games, they really don'y count at the moment. Especially as a point against an already established [insert your chosen opposition company here] first party.


Why are established studio's being written off in a similar vein?
Not having this. There are some developers that come up with an engine, and that is great. 343 has done this, Turn 10 actually does this too, and it is that engine that is also used by Playground games if I am not mistaken.

The value of a developer to a publisher is whether or not they are making profits. Undead Labs has performed well in that area with State of Decay 1, and State of Decay 2. None of these had a AAA budget and that is something that can be seen in the price point the games were offered at.

Secondly, I think that there is something that is overlooked. Most of these start ups, and independent developers are not small as a matter of choice. They are like that because that is the only way they can grow. Start small, make something that makes you stand out, partner with bigger publishers and in time you could make it. Having a big team is never an option, and in the case of Ninja Theory they said that they split teams and took contract jobs to get to a position where they could make their own title. They believed that they could in 5-8 years get to a point where all their development teams were in position to make their own titles like the Hellblade team. This is the challenge these face, and this was not a team that had not worked with some big publishers.

For a lot of these small teams, getting a bigger publisher in tow means a lot. It is better access to funds, the ability to expand without having to think about whether or not you are risking it all and it could all collapse on one big gamble and the access to support that you may not have as an independent or second party team.

I do not know why Microsoft was getting some of these developers, I can only speculate. Look at the developers that made Playground and what development houses they were coming from. They were in an area where they could collect talent and grow. Montreal, Santa Monica (The Initiative) are all locations where Microsoft can get talent from some of the huge development houses that work in those locations.

If there is one thing I will say, it is this, Microsoft has the ability to attract some talented people to their teams. All it might take is someone looking for job security, a better pay day, a new challenge. They might similarly lose talent in this manner.....now look no further than an animator who left Naughty Dog for 343i or the Horizon Zero Dawn combat lead who joined the same team.

Hiring will not take one year or decades. They will eventually have a team and ideas fleshed out as to what their first title is......so, be patient and let us wait and see what they come up with.

Gallagher may take time to build his team, Undead Labs will get to perfect their craft as they grow, and Microsoft did say that they were expanding all their internal teams.
 

Fijiandoce

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Oct 8, 2007
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#89
I don't actually think you've read my post... but certainly the point has clearly gone right over your head.

no idea why you're pointing out things i didn't even bring up... i did say above that Ninja theory made their own engine, yes? Look i'll quote it, it's right here:
One of the other teams is tiny... like 50 guys? They have the technical competence (designing your own in-house engine ain't easy - even if they ultimately made the switch to UE) but there is no manpower here.
Even notes how small the team is...

Gallagher may take time to build his team, Undead Labs will get to perfect their craft as they grow, and Microsoft did say that they were expanding all their internal teams.
I seem to recall this being brought up as an issue with Hideo Kojima and his studio... why is The Initiative suddenly special because it has no people and an some high profile lead?
 

sainraja

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Jun 16, 2006
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#90
If your saying that they aren't helping sell the Xbox, individually, no of course not.
But you add a fresh new gen into the mix, 5 new studios, new IP and some decent exclusive titles and you have a service which is superior in ever way possible to Sony.
Lets face it all Sony has is exclusives.
And a new generation wipes all of that clear.
Everything else around what MS offers is superior in every way. Which is why the Sony fans cling to exclusives so desperately now as their mantra.
They got beat on services, they got beat on compatibility, they got beat on cross play. And they got beat on power (which is when the narrative changed).

The same reason that made people go buy Sony's remasters this gen is going to be the same reason they will go to Xbox next gen, because they want to taste what the other side offered last gen and invest in the new gen.

It will be interesting to see what narrative we see next gen from the Sony fans. I guess if the PS5 is a tad more powerful that will become the narrative again.
They will find something.

As for the PS4 this gen, its a fine piece of hardware with the some great games. But it lacks in every other aspect supporting it. As this gen closes out that's becoming more and more apparent.
Don't act as if Xbox fans don't change the narrative.

Playstation Now isn't available in most regions, so its a none starter. Play Anywhere means you buy the game once and then can download it on PC the saves are all cross compatibale with xbox. It has nothign to do with streaming to PC, which Sony finally caught up on.
I don't think you were following the discussion at all. Sony does offer 'play anywhere' (not streaming) and has since launch - they just advertised the titles under the "cross play" banner. Many games I bought on the PS3 were available to me on other Sony platforms at no charge. Xbox's Play Anywhere isn't a global option btw, it is available on select titles.

All you have done so far in your posts is play up anything Xbox does and play down anything PlayStation does. But it's not surprising to me, and a bit expected from you.

Both companies have had different strategies. Sony's strategy has worked in their favor this generation while Microsoft has had to change theirs many times over.
 
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