Xbox Fans Are DYING To Celebrate A Masterpiece. Phil Spencer chimes in.

acryllicaltair

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Feb 24, 2010
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#91
I don't actually think you've read my post... but certainly the point has clearly gone right over your head.

no idea why you're pointing out things i didn't even bring up... i did say above that Ninja theory made their own engine, yes? Look i'll quote it, it's right here:

Even notes how small the team is...


I seem to recall this being brought up as an issue with Hideo Kojima and his studio... why is The Initiative suddenly special because it has no people and an some high profile lead?
I did read it. What I am asking is why some of these are seen as issues.

Microsoft started a studio from the ground up in their first generation, it is now the best console sim developer out there.
They started a Black Tusk studios this generation which was working on an unannounced title that was cancelled and later renamed The Coalition.

People make it seem like they hired scrubs. Every studio that they have invested in has a high profile lead except Ninja Theory. This is something they might have been targeting from the get go.

Am I worried about studio size? No.

Am I worried about their ability to add talent and grow their teams? No.

Am I worried as to whether or not they create their own engines or use third party stuff? No.

What worries me is whether or not they will be able to put out quality titles. I have seen developers come and go, some reinvent themselves and blossom. This is why I struggle to understand the statement that only three teams are worth anything at the moment. A team starts with who you have leading it.
I do not know anything about Death Stranding other than the fact that they showed a trailer of the main character carrying cargo for close to four minutes. What I do know is that Kojima is a top tier developer who delivers. I do not know what The Initiative is working on, but I know they have someone of substance who took a game that was dead for years, living off its legacy and brought it back into being one of the best titles. That is worth a lot. If these guys and their ability to lead teams was not worth much, so much attention would not have been cast their direction.

I have done enough research to know that Undead Labs is a quality developer. State of Decay 2 is a good game. It lacks polish, has bugs but it has a huge amount of content for that price and with work they could have got a better product out. This is worth something, and their first game was one underrated title.

Humble beginnings are underrated here. I did not think much of Turn 10 when MS started that studio and they were quality from day 1. I did not know what to think of Playground when a partnership was announced that they would be doing something in the Forza universe, and look at them now.........the latter has survived while Evolution has closed. The Coalition has delivered too, and there was a time when I was not sure whether they could deliver a quality Gears title.

Don't act as if Xbox fans don't change the narrative.
Show me narrative as it has changed this generation. It hasn't from gamers who primarily game on the XB1. I struggle to remember it anyway, moreso on this forum.
 

sainraja

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#92
One example being the transition from Xbox One to the Xbox One X – power wasn't important until X was released. There are no need for qualifiers but if you want to qualify, it has happened from gamers who "primarily" game on the XB1 but not sure why that matters. I won't go any further into a discussion on this because it's not going to go anywhere.
 
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Fijiandoce

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Oct 8, 2007
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#93
I did read it. What I am asking is why some of these are seen as issues.
Then you must be having an argument with some narrative in your head that im not privy to since you are arguing points i've not raised objections to - see ninja theory, and the acknowledgement of playground being a worthwhile purchase...

If you refuse to acknowledge the issues some of the purchases have, then that's your problem.


People make it seem like they hired scrubs.
Did I? I made a point to acknowledge Ninja theory and Playground for actually fielding high quality staff... i don't see how this fits in.

Am I worried about studio size? No.

Am I worried about their ability to add talent and grow their teams? No.

Am I worried as to whether or not they create their own engines or use third party stuff? No.
That's cool for you i guess, but what relevance are your worries to the apparent irrelevance of the established studio's?

I do not know what The Initiative is working on, but I know they have someone of substance who took a game that was dead for years, living off its legacy and brought it back into being one of the best titles. That is worth a lot. If these guys and their ability to lead teams was not worth much, so much attention would not have been cast their direction.
Yeah, don't get me started on Tomb Raider... i still want my $13 back.

I have done enough research to know that Undead Labs is a quality developer. State of Decay 2 is a good game. It lacks polish, has bugs but it has a huge amount of content for that price and with work they could have got a better product out. This is worth something, and their first game was one underrated title.
Their first game was an XB arcade title. Granted, with the restrictions they had being an arcade title (2GB file size limit or something), and the crap XB arcade used to churn out, SOD1 was a charming title. But ultimately buggy. No real excuse for SOD2 though. New engine, yet quite a few of the annoyances of the first went unresolved... in addition to its newly added bugs.

This is a talented studio:
A small team, putting a third party engine to good use.

There's also guys like Dontnod

Humble beginnings are underrated here.
I'm a big fan of Digital Extremes... if you want a humble begginings story, you can start there. Turn 10, and playground, have always worked close with MS
Part 1 can be found over at noclip's youtube channel.
 

acryllicaltair

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#94
One example being the transition from Xbox One to the Xbox One X – power wasn't important until X was released. There are no need for qualifiers but if you want to qualify, it has happened from gamers who "primarily" game on the XB1 but not sure why that matters. I won't go any further into a discussion on this because it's not going to go anywhere.
I was here when the consoles were revealed and some members made this section unbearable. It did not matter that Microsoft actually had some games out and Sony was struggling at the start.

The only people who presented the power argument was the playstation hardcore, and it was being shoved down our throats. I even complained that there were members of staff who were breaking the rules and rather blatantly. It fell on deaf ears, a few 720p games and 900p titles had cooked this goose. No amount of games were good enough, and guess what, that is still the case today.

On the mid gen refresh, where has the narrative really changed? Nowhere really. The only thing that changed was that Sony now did not have the strongest console and Microsoft did. That is where power stopped being important and it was now all about games and more recently it is about the lack of VR. The people that hitched their wagon on the power horse were the ones that have had a hard time adjusting, and it has got even harder with Microsoft boosting their first party studios.

For me, nothing has changed since this generation started. I still want diversity in the XB1 lineup, I still hope that they will have Perfect Dark and Rallisport Challenge.

On the bold part, you made a bold part on how Xbox fans change narrative. I would assume that the Xbox is their preferred console of choice. As such I fail to really (and I am stressing this), really see why you have a problem with that being pointed out.
 

Lethal

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#95
Personally, I would put Forza Horizon 3 in the "masterpiece" category. I didn't think any racer would beat Burnout Paradise for me, but FH3 has done it. I fully expect FH4 to be as good or better.
It is about as a close as you can get to a masterpiece on the Xbox One. But I expect Horizon 4 to be a masterpiece for sure.

I just want to see that one game that really sets the console apart from the PS4. I want to see a Bloodborne or God of War type masterpiece. Not so much the same type of games, but something that makes both sides say "holy shit this is a good game!!" And it does not need to be a 1st party game.

Even the Switch has a few of those games already.
 

acryllicaltair

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Feb 24, 2010
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#96
Then you must be having an argument with some narrative in your head that im not privy to since you are arguing points i've not raised objections to - see ninja theory, and the acknowledgement of playground being a worthwhile purchase...

If you refuse to acknowledge the issues some of the purchases have, then that's your problem.



Did I? I made a point to acknowledge Ninja theory and Playground for actually fielding high quality staff... i don't see how this fits in.


That's cool for you i guess, but what relevance are your worries to the apparent irrelevance of the established studio's?


Yeah, don't get me started on Tomb Raider... i still want my $13 back.


Their first game was an XB arcade title. Granted, with the restrictions they had being an arcade title (2GB file size limit or something), and the crap XB arcade used to churn out, SOD1 was a charming title. But ultimately buggy. No real excuse for SOD2 though. New engine, yet quite a few of the annoyances of the first went unresolved... in addition to its newly added bugs.

This is a talented studio:
A small team, putting a third party engine to good use.

There's also guys like Dontnod


I'm a big fan of Digital Extremes... if you want a humble begginings story, you can start there. Turn 10, and playground, have always worked close with MS
Part 1 can be found over at noclip's youtube channel.
Zipper Interactive.
Guerrilla Games.
Naughty Dog.
Evolution Studios.
Media Molecule.
Sucker Punch.
Bend.

What do these developers have in common? A publisher going out and buying a studio they have worked with before is not something that started with Microsoft. It is something that has been there with us for decades.

I do not see any issue with the purchases by the way. I said this in the E3 thread, and in this one too, that the biggest problem that Microsoft has had especially earlier was in working with studios and not buying them. They should have bought DICE, BioWare, Bizarre among others and it is something that they failed to do. I have also mentioned that they have a history of starting studios and buying some studios that are not huge and gambling big on their potential. One such studio was Bungie and on the other side, Sony gambled on Guerrilla Games at a time when that had not put out a single quality title and they are now up there with Santa Monica and Naughty Dog as Sony's gems.

The 'issues' are non starters. I could go about the history of Dan Greenawalt, Rod Fergusson, I could recount Bungie's history, Ninja Theory or Darryl Gallagher. Give a good leader a good team, time, tools and support and watch them grow. Maybe Microsoft should have gone for Dontnod or DE, but they chose to go with a party that they had worked with before, and on two projects. It reminds me of Sony purchasing some company that made a poor game.

I have seen it all. As I said, what matters is whether they will churn out top tier games or not. Anything else that is considered an issue is noise.
 

Fijiandoce

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#97
What do these developers have in common? A publisher going out and buying a studio they have worked with before is not something that started with Microsoft. It is something that has been there with us for decades.

I do not see any issue with the purchases by the way
Legit curious at this point... are you clicking the correct quote button?

The point was brought up that these 5 studio's represent some overhaul of the status quo. Counter point was made that the studio's aren't exactly hitting 'AAA' (if you will) quality at the moment - examples given for why this is - and as such, don't lead to an automatic irrelevancy of Sony's (in this case) first party...

What anything you're posting about history and 'who bought who's ' relation is a mystery to me :/

For reals.. i say "Ninja theory have quality guys". You say "no, they have quality guys" :unsure:

It seems like you're arguing just because i was critical of the purchases... much like the recent argument where you argued at length about how the Jaguar CPU's were fine... Kinda curious as to your thought on that given Phil has come forward to state that the imbalance will be addressed going forward... but i digress, as that's off-topic.
 

sainraja

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#98
I was here when the consoles were revealed and some members made this section unbearable. It did not matter that Microsoft actually had some games out and Sony was struggling at the start.

The only people who presented the power argument was the playstation hardcore, and it was being shoved down our throats. I even complained that there were members of staff who were breaking the rules and rather blatantly. It fell on deaf ears, a few 720p games and 900p titles had cooked this goose. No amount of games were good enough, and guess what, that is still the case today.

On the mid gen refresh, where has the narrative really changed? Nowhere really. The only thing that changed was that Sony now did not have the strongest console and Microsoft did. That is where power stopped being important and it was now all about games and more recently it is about the lack of VR. The people that hitched their wagon on the power horse were the ones that have had a hard time adjusting, and it has got even harder with Microsoft boosting their first party studios.

For me, nothing has changed since this generation started. I still want diversity in the XB1 lineup, I still hope that they will have Perfect Dark and Rallisport Challenge.

On the bold part, you made a bold part on how Xbox fans change narrative. I would assume that the Xbox is their preferred console of choice. As such I fail to really (and I am stressing this), really see why you have a problem with that being pointed out.
I think you are heavily (and lean) invested in the Xbox ecosystem so you are essentially blind to how the narrative changes from the opposite perspective, but that's OK because I don't care enough to go through a back and forth discussion over this.

Everyone here needs to realize that these companies have different strategies. Their focus is going to change based on how the market responds to what they do and what their position is, Microsoft had to work harder this generation, similar to what Sony had to do last gen.
 

Christopher

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#99
It is about as a close as you can get to a masterpiece on the Xbox One. But I expect Horizon 4 to be a masterpiece for sure.

I just want to see that one game that really sets the console apart from the PS4. I want to see a Bloodborne or God of War type masterpiece. Not so much the same type of games, but something that makes both sides say "holy shit this is a good game!!" And it does not need to be a 1st party game.

Even the Switch has a few of those games already.
I agree. Hopefully Playground Games will be able to bring their same brilliance to their rumored RPG. To me, they were Microsoft’s best acquisition. MS is definitely making the right moves to fill the gap in top shelf first party games, the question in my mind is when will we see the fruits of these moves outside of FH4. It may be a while.
 

acryllicaltair

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Legit curious at this point... are you clicking the correct quote button?

The point was brought up that these 5 studio's represent some overhaul of the status quo. Counter point was made that the studio's aren't exactly hitting 'AAA' (if you will) quality at the moment - examples given for why this is - and as such, don't lead to an automatic irrelevancy of Sony's (in this case) first party...

What anything you're posting about history and 'who bought who's ' relation is a mystery to me :/

For reals.. i say "Ninja theory have quality guys". You say "no, they have quality guys" :unsure:

It seems like you're arguing just because i was critical of the purchases
... much like the recent argument where you argued at length about how the Jaguar CPU's were fine... Kinda curious as to your thought on that given Phil has come forward to state that the imbalance will be addressed going forward... but i digress, as that's off-topic.
What did I argue back then? I said games were CPU bound extremely rarely and that a better CPU would have meant a more costly product. Both were right. So I said, and rightly so, that you get what you pay for...even XB1X was not a cheap console and it had Jaguar cores. Put Ryzen in there and what would it cost?

I say this so many times and it somehow does not resonate. MS and Sony are in the consumer electronics business and in the console space, their machines are simply a tool that enables them to sell you games and make money off licensing. Only a fool would price out his consumers with something that they can ill afford. It happened with Sony last generation, and it happened with MS this generation to a point where they had to drop their plans with Kinect.

I also remember watching something from Digital Foundry this week when they were talking about next gen, and Leadbetter put it well when he said that Sony and MS did not have much to work with in the CPU space. Jaguar was what they could go with.

Want a high end CPU and a high end GPU? There is a product for that. It is called PC gaming.



When it comes to studio purchases, I have seen developers who used to be good turn shit. Bizarre was poor once they left Microsoft, Bungie has gone to shit and there were studios that Microsoft had inhouse like FASA, Lionhead who went south real fast. Some of those folk that left Bizarre are tearing it up with Playground.

There is no formula to aggregate and see whether a developer will come good or not. I for one have not come out and said that these developers will most assuredly put out quality titles. What I have said and will continue to say is that they fill a need where Microsoft has been lacking especially in story driven games.

Acquiring Playground and Undead Labs just made sense because Microsoft had already worked with them, and I do not know what it is they have seen to make them take a huge leap with Undead Labs. I initially did not know who ran Compulsion, and looking it up and the type of games they are trying to make, I could see why they got them. How is this any different to anything that Sony has done before or MS for that matter?

Ninja Theory has been getting better with every game they have put out, but they have just one really good game and then there is The Initiative.

There is nothing wrong with what they have done, and I fail, honestly fail to understand why anyone would be critical. You talk about studios hitting AAA. How many are doing that for Sony? Yes.....Naughty Dog, Guerrilla and Santa Monica. That is it.

How many have done that for Microsoft? Turn 10, Playground, The Coalition, 343i. So I struggle.

I am not arguing because you were critical of the purchases. I struggle to see why anyone would be critical of studio expansions when they have been making it a point to post how Microsoft needs to expand their first party base. I find your stand off base especially with the history of the gaming industry, some of it that is spewed when it actually fits and ignored when it doesn't.

It is the hypocrisy of it all that staggers my mind, and from that hypocrisy comes a need to try and justify it as this or that, opinions raised as points of concern that never really stick when put through the test.

Maybe they should have gone for Dontnod or DE instead of Undead Labs. Maybe down the line those will be better studios, but the thing is, we do not know.
Maybe MS will buy one or both, but the thing is, we do not know. What we do know is this, MS signed a multi year, multi game agreement with Undead labs and so it fit to purchase them.

They are building a studio, but but but it has no one at current. Mate, they have done that before, built from the ground up and built studios that actually make some of the best games in their genre.

So, why not be patient and see how it all turns out? Microsoft has the best online setup, they have something that is intriguing in Game pass and they are building a first party team that they hope will be the best in the industry, and they are not yet done. Will Sony sit idly and wait? No. And this is what makes gaming especially next gen an enticing proposition.

I like where MS is going with their vision, and it is something they have made sure to try and flesh out each and every E3.

I think you are heavily (and lean) invested in the Xbox ecosystem so you are essentially blind to how the narrative changes from the opposite perspective, but that's OK because I don't care enough to go through a back and forth discussion over this.

Everyone here needs to realize that these companies have different strategies. Their focus is going to change based on how the market responds to what they do and what their position is, Microsoft had to work harder this generation, similar to what Sony had to do last gen.
You will be surprised to learn just how much I game on the PS4. It is for that reason that you will find it hard for me to say that it is a poor platform. It lacks racers and shooters for exclusives. Microsoft lacks story driven games... they balance out where the other lacks if you game on both systems.

I have been on this sub forum and told off that MS was wasting time on services. I have been told on here that Phil Spencer was lying when he said that sorting the first party would take time...some had no time or patience for it. When they bought studios, I was told that some were studios that did not change anything because they were working with MS and some had done nothing of note from some people you would not think would reason like that. I have been told that you will struggle to see a difference between fake 4k and real 4k....same chaps had no issue seeing a difference between 900p and 1080p.

The only thing that really changed was the fact that MS now had better graphics on their console. They still needed games and services.

So, I always go back and tell them to be consistent.

The narrative change in this site is one sided.
 

acryllicaltair

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That is where we disagree as I don't think it is one sided.
On here, it is.

By the way, the only thing that changed with the mid generation refresh was where you could play the best version of multi platform games.

Let me summarize for you. The people that complain about Gears, Halo and Forza have no issue with playing God of War, Uncharted, Gran Turismo or Killzone multiple times.

The people that had an issue with power and resolution are the same people above too for the most part. Now the power and resolution debate is nowhere to be seen because it doesn't suit their agenda.

But they hopped into another bus. It is called MS should have acquired studios 2-5 years ago (this is the range I have read from multiple views on different posts), and we do not know why they purchased developers that were their second party (forgetting that Sony does the same).

But that is now defeatist, they have moved to how important VR is in the world of Gaming, and Microsoft needs to invest in it. The market is huge despite producers saying it is small and niche. I do not know what they will complain about if MS partners with someone to bring that to the platform, probably next gen.

In short, MS can never do right.
 

Fijiandoce

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There is nothing wrong with what they have done, and I fail, honestly fail to understand why anyone would be critical. You talk about studios hitting AAA. How many are doing that for Sony? Yes.....Naughty Dog, Guerrilla and Santa Monica. That is it.

How many have done that for Microsoft? Turn 10, Playground, The Coalition, 343i. So I struggle.
Odd selection... what's turn 10 doing there? MM and Sucker Punch conspicuously missing too.

As a Motorsport fan i genuinely enjoy racers, and the force feedback triggers worked really well with Forza... but lets be honest... That's a stretch because if that's included, where's polyphony? On top of the online component being in a better state (being blunt: Forza online is utter trash), GT is a better sim.

I am not arguing because you were critical of the purchases. I struggle to see why anyone would be critical of studio expansions when they have been making it a point to post how Microsoft needs to expand their first party base. I find your stand off base especially with the history of the gaming industry, some of it that is spewed when it actually fits and ignored when it doesn't.
Again, i think you've gone back to arguing in your head.

See above post for breakdown of events, and critically, the context.

You seem dead set on this us vs. them mentality that you keep trying to argue points that aren't even being discussed...

But to clarify:
But you add a fresh new gen into the mix, 5 new studios, new IP and some decent exclusive titles and you have a service which is superior in ever way possible to Sony.
As i said originally, Sony's line-up doesn't suddenly become irrelevant to the poiint where "superior" can be used as an indicative word for the state MS will go into next-gen.

They are building a studio, but but but it has no one at current. Mate, they have done that before, built from the ground up and built studios that actually make some of the best games in their genre.
again... context. I made no comment on no studio ever not having done this before... merely this is the actual state of the studio...
 

acryllicaltair

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Odd selection... what's turn 10 doing there? MM and Sucker Punch conspicuously missing too.

As a Motorsport fan i genuinely enjoy racers, and the force feedback triggers worked really well with Forza... but lets be honest... That's a stretch because if that's included, where's polyphony? On top of the online component being in a better state (being blunt: Forza online is utter trash), GT is a better sim.


Again, i think you've gone back to arguing in your head.

See above post for breakdown of events, and critically, the context.

You seem dead set on this us vs. them mentality that you keep trying to argue points that aren't even being discussed...

But to clarify:

As i said originally, Sony's line-up doesn't suddenly become irrelevant to the poiint where "superior" can be used as an indicative word for the state MS will go into next-gen.


again... context. I made no comment on no studio ever not having done this before... merely this is the actual state of the studio...
Why on earth would anyone be debating Turn 10? Weakest game they had this generation is better than any racer Sony has put up, and they have gone strength to strength with every release that has followed. So why would that surprise you?

Media Molecule? Last game they made for console was in 2011. They are not relevant this generation until they actually put out something on it.

Sucker Punch? InFamous has not seen a review on IGN that hit 90% since last gen. Good developer though. I am rooting for Ghost of Tsushima because that is a genre and era that always intrigues me.

Polyphony Digital? Call me when they stop nickel and diming people pushing out work in progress then spending another two or three years after that putting a game out that still has dumb AI that challenges no one. Great physics, great graphics, poor career. This series stopped being relevant the moment Turn 10 put Forza 3. I will actually rate Yamauchi and Co. when they sort out the dumb AI. We cannot be in 2018 and we still have to deal with AI from the ps2 era. And this is something that will forever keep GT from being a top game for me again. No game is good with shitty AI. All his games have shitty AI.

I dont think you got it. Mynd was talking strategy for the most part. The only thing that Sony has right now is 'games'. In that lot are your remasters (and boy have they worked this horse), Uncharted, God of War with new games from their stable that have hit that pinnacle being Bloodborne and HZD. There may be some JRPG or two in there, I wouldn't know because that is not something that matters to me.

So, from my reviewer of choice (that rarely lets me down), that is your lot. It is not blasting the opposition to oblivion.
 

Fijiandoce

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Why on earth would anyone be debating Turn 10? Weakest game they had this generation is better than any racer Sony has put up, and they have gone strength to strength with every release that has followed. So why would that surprise you?

Media Molecule? Last game they made for console was in 2011. They are not relevant this generation until they actually put out something on it.

Sucker Punch? InFamous has not seen a review on IGN that hit 90% since last gen. Good developer though. I am rooting for Ghost of Tsushima because that is a genre and era that always intrigues me.
I don't know if you see the bitter irony here... but you were clearly too keen to get up-in-arms about MM and Sucker punch.

So they don't register... but a no staff company does.

Also, and kinda driving home the point about that narrative you're arguing against... I held GT and Forza in equal stead, i merely observed that GT was better of the two.

Polyphony Digital? Call me when they stop nickel and diming people pushing out work in progress then spending another two or three years after that putting a game out that still has dumb AI that challenges no one. Great physics, great graphics, poor career. This series stopped being relevant the moment Turn 10 put Forza 3. I will actually rate Yamauchi and Co. when they sort out the dumb AI. We cannot be in 2018 and we still have to deal with AI from the ps2 era. And this is something that will forever keep GT from being a top game for me again. No game is good with shitty AI. All his games have shitty AI.
Don't know if you've played any of Forza or GT, but Forza's online is unequivocally hot trash. The sim is fine, the people though can get thrown in a skip.

In GT, if you race like a potato, you'll get grouped with potatoes. Not the case in Forza. You race like a potato, you'll get grouped with anybody.

But it's clear you don't really care all that much for racers... so why even argue the point?

I dont think you got it. Mynd was talking strategy for the most part. The only thing that Sony has right now is 'games'. In that lot are your remasters (and boy have they worked this horse), Uncharted, God of War with new games from their stable that have hit that pinnacle being Bloodborne and HZD.
This is hardly true, and is practically a bare faced lie.
 

acryllicaltair

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I don't know if you see the bitter irony here... but you were clearly too keen to get up-in-arms about MM and Sucker punch.

So they don't register... but a no staff company does.

Also, and kinda driving home the point about that narrative you're arguing against... I held GT and Forza in equal stead, i merely observed that GT was better of the two.


Don't know if you've played any of Forza or GT, but Forza's online is unequivocally hot trash. The sim is fine, the people though can get thrown in a skip.

In GT, if you race like a potato, you'll get grouped with potatoes. Not the case in Forza. You race like a potato, you'll get grouped with anybody.

But it's clear you don't really care all that much for racers... so why even argue the point?


This is hardly true, and is practically a bare faced lie.
The last two games MM put out are on PS Vita. They have done nothing on console for close to 7 years. I have zero that I can think of in that time.

Darryl Gallagher has actually put out games this generation, and on multiple platforms. He is not a no show company that I have nothing to judge on. It is not hypocrisy, and it is not irony.

If you love GT, then great. I am not in the business of trying to convince you otherwise. For me, there is a standard that it falls short of that cannot be argued against by anyone that actually plays the game. I am fine with that.

Forza has issues especially when coming against people that are not great at the game. In some of the higher leagues like the pinnacle league it is great. GT similarly has issue with the penalty system. Both have issues and it depends on who you play against.....who knew?

Do this. Go to IGN's US site, tell me how many games have 9/10 that are not those I have mentioned from Sony. Take out the remasters and collections, and that includes Ratchet and Clank. You will be surprised at how little you will come across to make such a statement.
 

acryllicaltair

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No, I am just saying that in your posts you're doing what you say others do with Xbox games. Anyhow, that's just my observation.
You have funny observations that you rarely prove when asked to do the same. Note that I always back my opinion, you do not have to agree with it, and I am perfectly fine with that too.

Edit.

I said this in another post, there are people I know that play a sports game or two each year. That is what they love and you cannot convince them that anything else is quality. I never bother, and I respect that opinion. But look at someone who comes in and says oh this game is too linear....some of the best games this gen are that, and that includes Uncharted 4 that is as linear as they come.
 

mynd

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If PS4 games are playable on PS5, how are all the Sony exclusives wiped clear next gen?

You are right. With the release of Xbox One X, Xbox has PS4 beat in every way......except games. That power boost hasn't pushed Xbox ahead of PS4 though. Heck, Xbox One X doesn't outsell base Xbox One just like Pro doesn't outsell base PS4. So when are all these advantages supposed to kick in? Next gen? And is it really becoming more and more apparent where PS4 lacks or is it becoming more and more important where PS4 is superior (games).? I really don't know. Xbox One should be wiping the floor with PS4. And yet, latest NPD was just released and yep, PS4 won again. Xbox One is in third place. Despite BC, crossplay, etc.

As far as narratives, I seem to remember a heavy defense of the base Xbox One mounted by a number of Xbox fans as well as lot of criticism aimed at Sony first party earlier this gen. Xbox fans are just as guilty of changing their story it seems.
And Sonys first party rightly should have got shit. Their output and game quality was sub par. Just like MS’s is now.
But listen to yourself you be just finished telling us how MS should be selling heaps but aren’t because of no AAA exclusives then rightly point out than Sony’s output up until 2017 was crap (Bloodbourne excluded). Didn’t stop it from selling did it?

You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
 

Fijiandoce

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The last two games MM put out are on PS Vita. They have done nothing on console for close to 7 years. I have zero that I can think of in that time.

Darryl Gallagher has actually put out games this generation, and on multiple platforms. He is not a no show company that I have nothing to judge on. It is not hypocrisy, and it is not irony.
Conveniently left out SP...

It is hypocrisy, and it is ironic.

If you love GT, then great. I am not in the business of trying to convince you otherwise. For me, there is a standard that it falls short of that cannot be argued against by anyone that actually plays the game. I am fine with that.

Forza has issues especially when coming against people that are not great at the game. In some of the higher leagues like the pinnacle league it is great. GT similarly has issue with the penalty system. Both have issues and it depends on who you play against.....who knew?
I actually play a bit of PC2 on PC - on a halfway decent set-up (not mine). Arguably better than both GT and Forza. So i don't know where you get this idea (again, no idea where you pull these things from) that this standard "cannot be argued by anyone that actually plays the game". I don't feel the need to add into my posts how much of X system i've played as if it somehow validates what i say. But i like racers, and i play them all - arguably Asseto Corsa is the best and worst.

GT is endorsed by the FIA, that's why the penalty system is as strict as it is. If you don't like it, off to potato land with you. Some of us actually want to race just to match ourselves against equally skilled players. GT does this really well (and not just in select leagues) when i play. The first corner of any Forza lobby is an exercise in patients.

No.
 

mynd

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The significance of the studio's seems to be vastly overstated as if MS just purchased Guerrilla Games or even CD prjeckt.

Two of the studio's they've picked up are indie devs, with small teams. Both of those studio's have only put out 2 games. Neither were technical strokes of brilliance at that, and one of them has yet to actually put out something that is technically solid.

One of the other teams is tiny... like 50 guys? They have the technical competence (designing your own in-house engine ain't easy - even if they ultimately made the switch to UE) but there is no manpower here.

Another one has no staff...

And the last is the only one comprised of a full house of competent Devs, but who've only ever been allowed to make titles in a single genre.

I don't see how this somehow negates the likes of Naughty Dog, Guerrilla Games, Santa Monica etc. etc. to make this a valid point...

What is the significance of these studio's in relation to what Sony, or even Ninetendo have?... this really should have been done about 5 years ago. If anything, this is catching up to the momentum Sony has, not the other way around.


This is probably ill-informed, but definetly highly subjective.

I don't see any additional value in some of what XB offer - namely the EA stuff. You stop paying EA, those free goodies go away. Personally, there is no value in EA access for me. I play far too infrequently for the subscription cost... which is in addition to paying to play on the xbox itself (not that Sony do any better, but at least EA aren't there to rub salt in).


PS4 also offers Cross-play as well, not that any xbox diehards care to notice. I believe Sony have been doing so since last-gen and were probably the only ones doing it last-gen. Sony even entertained cross-platform-cross-title play with EVE and Dust.

MS did not entertain the idea of cross-platform then... why is this such a big deal with Sony now?
You got your head in the fucking sand?

Seriously?

Go look up fortnite and PS4.

Go google.

As for your “oh it’s subjective”

No it ain’t.
Sony’s BC doesnt exist
Sony’s cross play it restrictive.
Sonys Game pass doesn’t exist.
 

mynd

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One example being the transition from Xbox One to the Xbox One X – power wasn't important until X was released. There are no need for qualifiers but if you want to qualify, it has happened from gamers who "primarily" game on the XB1 but not sure why that matters. I won't go any further into a discussion on this because it's not going to go anywhere.
This is the single biggest lie Ive read in this thread.

PS4 were all about how Xbox couldnt hit 1080p on games. Please don't try and say they weren’t because resolutiongate was a very real thing, and it was pushed hard by PS4 zealots, press, everyone. It was a very very big thing that people pushed HARD.


Where is it now? Ya don’t even hear about how shit the PS4 pro can’t hit 4K.
 
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Fijiandoce

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Yes it is.

Sony’s BC doesnt exist
Relevance? You seriously want to play 360 titles on your nextbox?
Sony’s cross play it restrictive.
Despite the fact they do in fact have cross-platform play... just not with MS (is that why this is an issue?)
Sonys Game pass doesn’t exist.
Game pass is $120NZD on top of paying for the privilege to use their online services... You have more options to spend your money, sure. But i don't see this being universally something people gravitate towards. More likely, those who care more for it. Therefore, subjective.
 

Lethal

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PS4 Pro hits 4K in quite a few games actually. 1X does it with more though.

Xbox One X right now is just a glorified Xbox 360. Screw old games man!! Worry about tomorrow and forget about yesterday!
 

sainraja

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This is the single biggest lie Ive read in this thread.

PS4 were all about how Xbox couldnt hit 1080p on games. Please don't try and say they weren’t because resolutiongate was a very real thing, and it was pushed hard by PS4 zealots, press, everyone. It was a very very big thing that people pushed HARD.


Where is it now? Ya don’t even hear about how shit the PS4 pro can’t hit 4K.
Why are you being so over-dramatic?

And no, not a lie. Xbox fans have changed the narrative when it comes to power from the one to the X, from defending it when it wasn't there to pushing for it and using it as a point when it was. Goes all the way back to previous gen.

Being so aggressive and dramatic about it isn't going to prove that you are right.
 

mynd

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PS4 Pro hits 4K in quite a few games actually. 1X does it with more though.

Xbox One X right now is just a glorified Xbox 360. Screw old games man!! Worry about tomorrow and forget about yesterday!
Of you 30 odd Native 4k games for PS4, a large chunk of them are glorified PS3 games.
You know those games no one want to play.



Yes it is.


Relevance? You seriously want to play 360 titles on your nextbox?
I want my investment in games to follow me, just like PC users can.
And hell yes, Ive played through Bioshock ad Xcom in the past year, two fantastic games I played on my X for free because I had bought them previously.
Ive played Fusion Frenzy and Conker in 4k in the past few months as well.
And they both look beautiful and I had a lot of fun on both.

Despite the fact they do in fact have cross-platform play... just not with MS (is that why this is an issue?)
OMG Lol.

Seriously,,FFS do you guys live under a rock.
Sony is universally HATED right now by Fortnite fans and you guys haven't a clue.
Game pass is $120NZD on top of paying for the privilege to use their online services... You have more options to spend your money, sure. But i don't see this being universally something people gravitate towards. More likely, those who care more for it. Therefore, subjective.
Its still a service they offer, which is guess what...and option you dont even have.
So yeah sure you can dismiss it by saying "I dont want that" but you cant deny its fricken option.

It always cracks me up how people dismiss facts based on there own preference.

I'm sorry but I will repeat this:

MS has SONY beats on services.

Thats a fucking fact.
It doesn't matter if you give a shit about it.


Why are you being so over-dramatic?

And no, not a lie. Xbox fans have changed the narrative when it comes to power from the one to the X, from defending it when it wasn't there to pushing for it and using it as a point when it was. Goes all the way back to previous gen.

Being so aggressive and dramatic about it isn't going to prove that you are right.
I think most people have issues with a "4k" machine not having enough power to hit 4k.

And not people dont point out th eX has mor epower they point out how th efocus of PS4 fans has moved form "power" to "exlcusives" despite the PS4 being pretty much crap till 2017 in this area.
 
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sainraja

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When referring to PlayStation back catalog:
Of you 30 odd Native 4k games for PS4, a large chunk of them are glorified PS3 games.
You know those games no one want to play
.

When referring to Xbox back catalog:
I want my investment in games to follow me, just like PC users can.
And hell yes, Ive played through Bioshock ad Xcom in the past year, two fantastic games I played on my X for free because I had bought them previously.
Ive played Fusion Frenzy and Conker in 4k in the past few months as well.
And they both look beautiful and I had a lot of fun on both.
lol. Uff.
 
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