Xbox Scarlett ~16 Tflops? (4x more powerful than One X)

Aquanox

Forum Sage
May 26, 2005
8,124
20
38
#1
Or so is says the announcement:

"From a pure processing perspective this is 4x more powerful than the Xbox One X"

The Xbox One X is 6Tflop. So 6x4 = 24...

Is that even possible? If so... it looks like a gap similar to that between the PS4 Pro and One X will take place next gen.

 
Likes: Hedon

Aquanox

Forum Sage
May 26, 2005
8,124
20
38
#3
Yes, I think that'd be way too much, but in fact, "pure processing power" means Teraflops...


"This generation will be a bigger leap than any generation before"

Xbox 360 was 12 times more powerful than the original Xbox...

Xbox One was 1.3 Tflops.

According to them, the Xbox Scarlett should sport at least 16Tflops.
 
Last edited:
Jun 4, 2007
13,390
175
63
#4
"From a pure processing perspective this is 4x more powerful than the Xbox One X" reminds me of the "True 4k and uncompromised pixels" bullshit MS spewed when talking about Xbox one X.
 
Likes: VayMasters86
May 20, 2008
10,817
86
48
#5
"From a pure processing perspective this is 4x more powerful than the Xbox One X" reminds me of the "True 4k and uncompromised pixels" bullshit MS spewed when talking about Xbox one X.
The x is running games at native 4K. They didn't announce any specs for the next xbox so why you mad?
 

Fijiandoce

Administrator
Staff member
Oct 8, 2007
6,447
141
63
#6
From a technical perspective, you can't really say what they are talking about - So it's not a 4x to the TF metric of the OX - at least at this point.

There are probably Smart Toasters(these things actually exist for some reason) that are 2x more powerful... if the point of comparison is the jaguar. A Potato spud is probably 1.5x more powerful than the jaguars truth be told.

Additionally, simply using FLOPS doesn't really do much either. Since they don't specify precision, they could be talking about 16bit floating point ops (half precision) which is a feature of AMD's GPU's. This would only be a ~2x bump for single precision.

The only thing you can say for certain is that the Zen cores are going to be a monster jump up from Jaguar... and this can be demonstrably proven for every metric.

I'd also like to point out how buddy boy @1:32 talking something so special my eyes rolled clean out their sockets... like, right out their sockets!
 

Christopher

Community and Technical Manager
Staff member
Jun 1, 2007
11,930
101
63
48
Newnan, GA
#7
Yes, I think that'd be way too much, but in fact, "pure processing power" means Teraflops...

"This generation will be a bigger leap than any generation before"

Xbox 360 was 12 times more powerful than the original Xbox...

Xbox One was 1.3 Tflops.

According to them, the Xbox Scarlett should sport at least 16Tflops.
The 6 TFlops of the One X is just the GPU. As is the 1.3 TF of the Xbox One S. In the video they are talking about the processing power of CPU and GPU combined. So as Fiji said, the jump from Jaguar is extremely significant. But applying all of the 4x processing power towards the 6 TF of One X's GPU doesn't work. Even 16 TF is a pipe dream.

I'd also like to point out how buddy boy @1:32 talking something so special my eyes rolled clean out their sockets... like, right out their sockets!
Sounds like that guy doesn't get out much, huh?
 
Likes: Two4DaMoney

Aquanox

Forum Sage
May 26, 2005
8,124
20
38
#8
The 6 TFlops of the One X is just the GPU. As is the 1.3 TF of the Xbox One S. In the video they are talking about the processing power of CPU and GPU combined. So as Fiji said, the jump from Jaguar is extremely significant. But applying all of the 4x processing power towards the 6 TF of One X's GPU doesn't work. Even 16 TF is a pipe dream.
That doesn't add up to your point. On contrary, if 6 TFlops is the GPU only, then 4x the 'whole' One X would be way more than 24 Tflops for the Scarlett (which I'm sure won't be the case)

I'm pretty sure the next Xbox will be considerably more powerful than the PS5 (at least 20%) ... I also suspect this is one of the reasons Sony stepped away from the conference. I can't prove this, it's just a feeling. Fortunately, one of those points will be proven next year (or not :D )

BTW... this conference was boring as heck, apart from the Keanu Reeves moment, Ori and Halo (and of course the new console) ... Heck even Gears of War looked boring in the show.
 

Aquanox

Forum Sage
May 26, 2005
8,124
20
38
#9
Additionally, simply using FLOPS doesn't really do much either. Since they don't specify precision, they could be talking about 16bit floating point ops (half precision) which is a feature of AMD's GPU's. This would only be a ~2x bump for single precision.
Then again, they didn't talk about Flops, but 'pure processing power' (which is largely related to the Flops). Trying to translate it to TFlops here, in the same measure of course. FYI, the One X as well as all other modern consoles, is measured in single precision TFlops, so to multiply its value, one should use the same unit, otherwise, you'd have to specify it. (No precision, Double precision... )

The One X has 40% more "Tflops" than the PS4 Pro, and it shows, so this information IS important. Also, it looks like they're using very similar approaches (SSD, GDDR6, etc...) so the RAW power could be the differentiation.

The only thing you can say for certain is that the Zen cores are going to be a monster jump up from Jaguar... and this can be demonstrably proven for every metric.
I agree on that a big chunk of that jump will come from the CPU, considering the One X basically uses the same CPU as the original Xbox One.

Keep in mind that

1. Google Stadia Farms have custom AMD GPUs @10.5Glops.
2. The fastest AMD Card at the moment is the Radeon VII and it sports ~14Tflops. Not sure 16 TFlops is actually a Pipe Dream for the next Xbox.
 
Last edited:

Fijiandoce

Administrator
Staff member
Oct 8, 2007
6,447
141
63
#12
Then again, they didn't talk about Flops, but 'pure processing power' (which is largely related to the Flops).
Then that makes it even more unclear.

Floating point ops can also be applied to CPU's (or any circuit with an FPU). More over, in addition to MIPS, CPU's have the capacity to process data, logic, and IO. So are they the "Pure" part?

Further still, a large part of raytracing is calculating vector intersections (matrix multiplication), this can also be "pure" processing. But in this case its a bit of a given.

FYI, the One X as well as all other modern consoles, is measured in single precision TFlops, so to multiply its value, one should use the same unit, otherwise, you'd have to specify it. (No precision, Double precision... )
That's kinda the point, they didn't specify. Therefore, it can't really be said that is where the 4x is applied. That was the point.

The One X has 40% more "Tflops" than the PS4 Pro, and it shows, so this information IS important. Also, it looks like they're using very similar approaches (SSD, GDDR6, etc...) so the RAW power could be the differentiation.
Don't think anybody was talking about the PS4 tho. Just that the 4x value isn't inherently applied to the flops of the OX.

1. Google Stadia Farms have custom AMD GPUs @10.5Glops.
2. The fastest AMD Card at the moment is the Radeon VII and it sports ~14Tflops. Not sure 16 TFlops is actually a Pipe Dream for the next Xbox.
there are a few key distinctions however: These are desktop grade parts, with desktop grade TDP's. IF (that's an actual "if") the new console shps as an APU, i'd say it is all but a pipe dream.

It has some potential with they use Matisse. But we'll need to wait and see, much like we need to wait to see where this metric is derived from.

Sounds like that guy doesn't get out much, huh?
Always happens with these types of adverts. Apple are famous for doing it - kinda bit them back recently with their stand though... ouch.
 

Aquanox

Forum Sage
May 26, 2005
8,124
20
38
#13
Well... it looks like this might answer a lot of questions here:

"The notion of Navi's 9.75TF outperforming Vega's 12.6TF may well be the reason why the next-gen consoles - both based on AMD's latest GPU architecture - won't be marketed based on teraflop numbers alone in the way that Xbox One X was. AMD has pushed IPC hard with Navi, with a new compute unit design with a 2x increase in instruction rate, twice the scalar units and schedulers. There's reduced execution latency, improved cache efficiency and a new cache hierarchy. Today's teraflop with Navi clearly delivers a lot more real-life gaming performance than last gen's Vega."

In short, we might not have a whooping Teraflop number, but the 4x claim over the One X could be true in terms of performance, which would be phenomenal. I'm very excited about the Scarlett. The One X delivered and this one should be even more impressive for its time.
 

Hedon

Active member
Jan 19, 2018
256
25
28
#16
https://variety.com/2019/gaming/features/breaking-down-what-we-know-about-the-next-xbox-1203239065/

Microsoft is calling Scarlett “a bigger leap than any generation we’ve done before,” specifying that from a “pure processing perspective, [Scarlett is] four times more powerful than Xbox One X.” Today, Variety was able to confirm with Microsoft that this number was specifically in reference to Scarlett’s CPU, and not it’s graphical horsepower, which we still know very little about.


I wrote this! Also: the 4x power numbers during the Scarlett presentation? All CPU related. Confirmed with
@XboxP3
 
Jun 4, 2007
13,390
175
63
#17
https://variety.com/2019/gaming/features/breaking-down-what-we-know-about-the-next-xbox-1203239065/

Microsoft is calling Scarlett “a bigger leap than any generation we’ve done before,” specifying that from a “pure processing perspective, [Scarlett is] four times more powerful than Xbox One X.” Today, Variety was able to confirm with Microsoft that this number was specifically in reference to Scarlett’s CPU, and not it’s graphical horsepower, which we still know very little about.

That's what I was thinking in the other thread.
 

Aquanox

Forum Sage
May 26, 2005
8,124
20
38
#18
https://variety.com/2019/gaming/features/breaking-down-what-we-know-about-the-next-xbox-1203239065/

Microsoft is calling Scarlett “a bigger leap than any generation we’ve done before,” specifying that from a “pure processing perspective, [Scarlett is] four times more powerful than Xbox One X.” Today, Variety was able to confirm with Microsoft that this number was specifically in reference to Scarlett’s CPU, and not it’s graphical horsepower, which we still know very little about.

Great Find!!... and not surprising.

Edit: I wonder why nobody else said this when asked about it. :unsure:

Is Microsoft that evil? Or...
 

Lethal

Administrator
Staff member
Nov 14, 2007
14,948
312
83
39
#19
4x more powerful does not mean pick a point and multiply it by 4.......

If that were the case then the next console with have a 12ghz cpu with 32 cores, 4TB hard drive and 32gb of ram.

Or maybe it can do 4x more processing at once compared to the One X. Hell the One X chugs when scrolling through the dashboard.
 

Fijiandoce

Administrator
Staff member
Oct 8, 2007
6,447
141
63
#20
https://variety.com/2019/gaming/features/breaking-down-what-we-know-about-the-next-xbox-1203239065/

Microsoft is calling Scarlett “a bigger leap than any generation we’ve done before,” specifying that from a “pure processing perspective, [Scarlett is] four times more powerful than Xbox One X.” Today, Variety was able to confirm with Microsoft that this number was specifically in reference to Scarlett’s CPU, and not it’s graphical horsepower, which we still know very little about.

Just thinking to myself that a 4x to CPU alone is kinda small. Especially when you consider the baseline is a Jaguar...

It can't be using a Matisse design if that is the case as i'd imagine the core is clocked quite low to make it only 4x (maybe ~1GHz if you reference the Sony SKU) which means we're likely seeing something similar to this gen where the power budget is vastly in favour of the GPU - So probs another APU.

Depending on what you are looking at, the range for the desktop variant can be as high as ~8x for a 4C/8T Ryzen, and the Sony rumours suggest 8C (No reason to assume otherwise here as well).

Still, can't complain. Jaguar was designed to go in tablets. Ryzen was only ever designed to go from HPC down. Complete different end of the spectrum.
 
Jun 4, 2007
13,390
175
63
#21
Do you guys think the rumors of two next gen xbox consoles hold any weight after E3?

Edit: Nevermind the question. It's supposedly scrapped after devs complaints and xcloud.
 
Last edited: